Makes you wonder whether it's worth maxing cars at all:

Well, in this case clearly not since 939 is proven the superior tuning. Wonder if also the case on gravel? In any case well done that chap for discovering a superior tune. Need to know: is it superior on all sand tracks? and; are 929 or 949 better or worse tunings? hmm, think i have one stock. i could run some tests

Makes you wonder whether it's worth maxing cars at all:

Well, in this case clearly not since 939 is proven the superior tuning. Wonder if also the case on gravel? In any case well done that chap for discovering a superior tune. Need to know: is it superior on all sand tracks? and; are 929 or 949 better or worse tunings? hmm, think i have one stock. i could run some tests

Would be awesome if u start with 1.0 then 1.1 ... 3.2😅

Ask and you shall receive (at least first tune stage):

Makes you wonder whether it's worth maxing cars at all:

Well, in this case clearly not since 939 is proven the superior tuning. Wonder if also the case on gravel? In any case well done that chap for discovering a superior tune. Need to know: is it superior on all sand tracks? and; are 929 or 949 better or worse tunings? hmm, think i have one stock. i could run some tests

Would be awesome if u start with 1.0 then 1.1 ... 3.2😅

Ask and you shall receive (at least first tune stage):

This doesn't even make sense considering the sierra is maxed

maybe sierra is missing the suv/pickup hidden hill climb bonus modifier? considering the stats and the whole engine/traction thing I'd expect this one to go to sierra.

Yep, I've been looking into this kind of thing a bit.

We all established that weight makes no difference when accelerating from stationary (both in real life and in-game) a while back. The added weight gives more traction, but this is exactly cancelled out because the extra weight makes it slower to accelerate. I now think that there's a new effect to consider when in motion.

When you see the orange warning triangle over a car, it means the AI is having to brake to retain traction, and can't accelerate as fast as it would otherwise. Once it picks up enough speed, at some point the amount of power it can put down is then less than the traction limit, so the orange triangle disappears, and it can accelerate as fast as normal. Once a car can accelerate as normal, a lighter car (with the same power) can go faster.

The complication is this: I think a slightly heavier car has the orange triangle disappear a little sooner. That means it can start accelerating fully a little sooner. Once the lighter car is also able to start accelerating fully, it can of course accelerate faster, and that is usually enough for it to catch up and overtake - but not always.

In the above case with the Datsun, individual weight upgrades make such tiny differences I suspect the fluctuations in times are due to the above effect playing out differently depending on the exact speed reached at each physics frame (of 0.03s). In one upgrade state perhaps the lighter car can escape the traction limit at x.05s into the race and the heavier car at x.04s, which falls on the same frame due to rounding, so the heavier car doesn't get this escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage; at another upgrade state perhaps it's x.05s vs x.03s, which now gives the heavier car one frame of escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage. This then happens repeatedly and differently on each straight of the hairpin.

So I next need to establish: - Is this definitely what's happening in the simulation? - How does this differ from real physics? - What should we do about it?

(Just so you know though, the random braking you see in some parts of the new mountain tracks is a higher priority physics simulation issue to solve).

Yep, I've been looking into this kind of thing a bit.

We all established that weight makes no difference when accelerating from stationary (both in real life and in-game) a while back. The added weight gives more traction, but this is exactly cancelled out because the extra weight makes it slower to accelerate. I now think that there's a new effect to consider when in motion.

When you see the orange warning triangle over a car, it means the AI is having to brake to retain traction, and can't accelerate as fast as it would otherwise. Once it picks up enough speed, at some point the amount of power it can put down is then less than the traction limit, so the orange triangle disappears, and it can accelerate as fast as normal. Once a car can accelerate as normal, a lighter car (with the same power) can go faster.

The complication is this: I think a slightly heavier car has the orange triangle disappear a little sooner. That means it can start accelerating fully a little sooner. Once the lighter car is also able to start accelerating fully, it can of course accelerate faster, and that is usually enough for it to catch up and overtake - but not always.

In the above case with the Datsun, individual weight upgrades make such tiny differences I suspect the fluctuations in times are due to the above effect playing out differently depending on the exact speed reached at each physics frame (of 0.03s). In one upgrade state perhaps the lighter car can escape the traction limit at x.05s into the race and the heavier car at x.04s, which falls on the same frame due to rounding, so the heavier car doesn't get this escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage; at another upgrade state perhaps it's x.05s vs x.03s, which now gives the heavier car one frame of escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage. This then happens repeatedly and differently on each straight of the hairpin.

So I next need to establish: - Is this definitely what's happening in the simulation? - How does this differ from real physics? - What should we do about it?

(Just so you know though, the random braking you see in some parts of the new mountain tracks is a higher priority physics simulation issue to solve).

This doesn't even make sense considering the sierra is maxed

This one is a lot simpler - the Raptor has a bigger hill-climb "bonus" than the Sierra. Should they be equal in that regard though?

Sorry to bother, but regarding the second case, why does the Raptor have a bigger Hill Climb bonus? I mean is there some kind of list of the bonuses, for example: Raptor first, then the G class then the rest? Or is it age based, new cars, then older cars?

Yep, I've been looking into this kind of thing a bit.

We all established that weight makes no difference when accelerating from stationary (both in real life and in-game) a while back. The added weight gives more traction, but this is exactly cancelled out because the extra weight makes it slower to accelerate. I now think that there's a new effect to consider when in motion.

When you see the orange warning triangle over a car, it means the AI is having to brake to retain traction, and can't accelerate as fast as it would otherwise. Once it picks up enough speed, at some point the amount of power it can put down is then less than the traction limit, so the orange triangle disappears, and it can accelerate as fast as normal. Once a car can accelerate as normal, a lighter car (with the same power) can go faster.

The complication is this: I think a slightly heavier car has the orange triangle disappear a little sooner. That means it can start accelerating fully a little sooner. Once the lighter car is also able to start accelerating fully, it can of course accelerate faster, and that is usually enough for it to catch up and overtake - but not always.

In the above case with the Datsun, individual weight upgrades make such tiny differences I suspect the fluctuations in times are due to the above effect playing out differently depending on the exact speed reached at each physics frame (of 0.03s). In one upgrade state perhaps the lighter car can escape the traction limit at x.05s into the race and the heavier car at x.04s, which falls on the same frame due to rounding, so the heavier car doesn't get this escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage; at another upgrade state perhaps it's x.05s vs x.03s, which now gives the heavier car one frame of escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage. This then happens repeatedly and differently on each straight of the hairpin.

So I next need to establish: - Is this definitely what's happening in the simulation? - How does this differ from real physics? - What should we do about it?

(Just so you know though, the random braking you see in some parts of the new mountain tracks is a higher priority physics simulation issue to solve).

This doesn't even make sense considering the sierra is maxed

This one is a lot simpler - the Raptor has a bigger hill-climb "bonus" than the Sierra. Should they be equal in that regard though?

They should have the same bonuses. They're both pickup trucks with offroad tires. I love the raptor in real life but in this game, the truck with better stats should win in this case

Yep, I've been looking into this kind of thing a bit.

We all established that weight makes no difference when accelerating from stationary (both in real life and in-game) a while back. The added weight gives more traction, but this is exactly cancelled out because the extra weight makes it slower to accelerate. I now think that there's a new effect to consider when in motion.

When you see the orange warning triangle over a car, it means the AI is having to brake to retain traction, and can't accelerate as fast as it would otherwise. Once it picks up enough speed, at some point the amount of power it can put down is then less than the traction limit, so the orange triangle disappears, and it can accelerate as fast as normal. Once a car can accelerate as normal, a lighter car (with the same power) can go faster.

The complication is this: I think a slightly heavier car has the orange triangle disappear a little sooner. That means it can start accelerating fully a little sooner. Once the lighter car is also able to start accelerating fully, it can of course accelerate faster, and that is usually enough for it to catch up and overtake - but not always.

In the above case with the Datsun, individual weight upgrades make such tiny differences I suspect the fluctuations in times are due to the above effect playing out differently depending on the exact speed reached at each physics frame (of 0.03s). In one upgrade state perhaps the lighter car can escape the traction limit at x.05s into the race and the heavier car at x.04s, which falls on the same frame due to rounding, so the heavier car doesn't get this escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage; at another upgrade state perhaps it's x.05s vs x.03s, which now gives the heavier car one frame of escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage. This then happens repeatedly and differently on each straight of the hairpin.

So I next need to establish: - Is this definitely what's happening in the simulation? - How does this differ from real physics? - What should we do about it?

(Just so you know though, the random braking you see in some parts of the new mountain tracks is a higher priority physics simulation issue to solve).

This doesn't even make sense considering the sierra is maxed

This one is a lot simpler - the Raptor has a bigger hill-climb "bonus" than the Sierra. Should they be equal in that regard though?

They should have the same bonuses. They're both pickup trucks with offroad tires. I love the raptor in real life but in this game, the truck with better stats should win in this case

How about creating realistic physics, so that you don't have to rely on bonuses?

Yep, I've been looking into this kind of thing a bit.

We all established that weight makes no difference when accelerating from stationary (both in real life and in-game) a while back. The added weight gives more traction, but this is exactly cancelled out because the extra weight makes it slower to accelerate. I now think that there's a new effect to consider when in motion.

When you see the orange warning triangle over a car, it means the AI is having to brake to retain traction, and can't accelerate as fast as it would otherwise. Once it picks up enough speed, at some point the amount of power it can put down is then less than the traction limit, so the orange triangle disappears, and it can accelerate as fast as normal. Once a car can accelerate as normal, a lighter car (with the same power) can go faster.

The complication is this: I think a slightly heavier car has the orange triangle disappear a little sooner. That means it can start accelerating fully a little sooner. Once the lighter car is also able to start accelerating fully, it can of course accelerate faster, and that is usually enough for it to catch up and overtake - but not always.

In the above case with the Datsun, individual weight upgrades make such tiny differences I suspect the fluctuations in times are due to the above effect playing out differently depending on the exact speed reached at each physics frame (of 0.03s). In one upgrade state perhaps the lighter car can escape the traction limit at x.05s into the race and the heavier car at x.04s, which falls on the same frame due to rounding, so the heavier car doesn't get this escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage; at another upgrade state perhaps it's x.05s vs x.03s, which now gives the heavier car one frame of escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage. This then happens repeatedly and differently on each straight of the hairpin.

So I next need to establish: - Is this definitely what's happening in the simulation? - How does this differ from real physics? - What should we do about it?

(Just so you know though, the random braking you see in some parts of the new mountain tracks is a higher priority physics simulation issue to solve).

This doesn't even make sense considering the sierra is maxed

This one is a lot simpler - the Raptor has a bigger hill-climb "bonus" than the Sierra. Should they be equal in that regard though?

They should have the same bonuses. They're both pickup trucks with offroad tires. I love the raptor in real life but in this game, the truck with better stats should win in this case

How about creating realistic physics, so that you don't have to rely on bonuses?

Lol there's not much about this game that has realistic physics in terms of hillclimbs. You ask for what you can under the circumstances.

## Comments

236✭✭✭125✭✭✭6,067✭✭✭✭✭125✭✭✭6,067✭✭✭✭✭7,672✭✭✭✭✭205✭✭✭7,672✭✭✭✭✭2✭234✭✭✭Same car, 363 vs 333, twisty road wet, asphalt

2,254✭✭✭✭✭372✭✭✭✭We don't need handling here

2,546✭✭✭✭✭That is one of the most ludicrous results ever, and there have been a few!

1,827✭✭✭✭✭409✭✭✭✭2,326✭✭✭✭✭Hairpin sand - uae 8.4

1:06:43 silvia 969

1:06:63 datsun 939 and 909

1:06:66 datsun 969 and 919

1:06:69 datsun 929

1,827✭✭✭✭✭7,672✭✭✭✭✭2,991✭✭✭✭✭2,209✭✭✭✭✭1,841✭✭✭✭✭678adminWe all established that weight makes no difference when accelerating from stationary (both in real life and in-game) a while back. The added weight gives more traction, but this is exactly cancelled out because the extra weight makes it slower to accelerate. I now think that there's a new effect to consider when in motion.

When you see the orange warning triangle over a car, it means the AI is having to brake to retain traction, and can't accelerate as fast as it would otherwise. Once it picks up enough speed, at some point the amount of power it can put down is then less than the traction limit, so the orange triangle disappears, and it can accelerate as fast as normal. Once a car can accelerate as normal, a lighter car (with the same power) can go faster.

The complication is this: I think a slightly heavier car has the orange triangle disappear a little sooner. That means it can start accelerating fully a little sooner. Once the lighter car is also able to start accelerating fully, it can of course accelerate faster, and that is usually enough for it to catch up and overtake - but not always.

In the above case with the Datsun, individual weight upgrades make such tiny differences I suspect the fluctuations in times are due to the above effect playing out differently depending on the exact speed reached at each physics frame (of 0.03s). In one upgrade state perhaps the lighter car can escape the traction limit at x.05s into the race and the heavier car at x.04s, which falls on the same frame due to rounding, so the heavier car doesn't get this escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage; at another upgrade state perhaps it's x.05s vs x.03s, which now gives the heavier car one frame of escaped-traction-limit-sooner advantage. This then happens repeatedly and differently on each straight of the hairpin.

So I next need to establish:

- Is this definitely what's happening in the simulation?

- How does this differ from real physics?

- What should we do about it?

(Just so you know though, the random braking you see in some parts of the new mountain tracks is a higher priority physics simulation issue to solve).

This one is a lot simpler - the Raptor has a bigger hill-climb "bonus" than the Sierra. Should they be equal in that regard though?

405✭✭✭2,991✭✭✭✭✭821✭✭✭✭2,991✭✭✭✭✭3,189✭✭✭✭✭Is there actually any results that

as expected in the game? I have my doubts.......are560✭✭✭821✭✭✭✭1,356✭✭✭✭✭