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Unbelievable results

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  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 917 ✭✭✭✭
    REALAIS said:
    Lancia vs maxed Porsche Dakar is bad comparision. 
    Ofc maxed car will win in Snow when ETB is at its strongest.

    Just because we know about ETB doesn’t make this a bad comparison at all. The title of the thread is “unbelievable results”, which this is based on the card stats.

    maybe since Hutch is working on a ETB fix, they could use some of these results to show us the results of the change, whatever that is.
    Its not unbelievable if it is game feature when maxed upgrades of engine provides traction bonus accordingly.
    And its difference is  ~1 handling point. And 0-60 difference has less impact in heavy offroading than on dry asphalt.


    And thumbs up for "Disagree". 
  • David_FookDavid_Fook Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭✭✭
    REALAIS said:
    Hi David_Fook said:
    REALAIS said:
    Lancia vs maxed Porsche Dakar is bad comparision. 
    Ofc maxed car will win in Snow when ETB is at its strongest.

    Just because we know about ETB doesn’t make this a bad comparison at all. The title of the thread is “unbelievable results”, which this is based on the card stats.

    maybe since Hutch is working on a ETB fix, they could use some of these results to show us the results of the change, whatever that is.
    Its not unbelievable if it is game feature when maxed upgrades of engine provides traction bonus accordingly.
    And its difference is  ~1 handling point. And 0-60 difference has less impact in heavy offroading than on dry asphalt.


    And thumbs up for "Disagree". 
    I suppose I’m arguing that it’s not a game feature, they snuck something in as a fix and it causes problems. You won’t find it explained in the help section! Let’s not split hairs about whether it’s a good example when we both believe it’s ****.

    oh, and I don’t use the disagree button, I use words mate. To prove it - your post now has another :)
  • StyxingerStyxinger Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    Of course

  • Hutch_DmitriHutch_Dmitri Posts: 248 admin
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. Because of the poor conditions, the cars can’t get their power down, they can only go as fast as traction allows. You can see when a car is doing this because the orange triangle appears above it. 4WD/off-road tires have a lot of traction, but even they struggle in the snow. That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.
  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 917 ✭✭✭✭
    Styxinger said:

    Of course

    Welcome in world of ETB.
    It is wet asphalt and ETB plays big role. Vauxhall won because it is maxed, while your car is only 1.3
  • MrpiratepeteMrpiratepete Posts: 968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. 
    I don't get it, the shown examples were not "rolling start".
    That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.
    So you are basically saying the low 0-60mph is worth nothing? Also since when did MRA become important on Hairpin Road?

    Other than that 30 MRA less than it's contender the S1 seems strange to me, but that's already in Review I guess and who am I to judge.
    Post edited by Mrpiratepete on
  • Hutch_DmitriHutch_Dmitri Posts: 248 admin
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. 
    I don't get it, the shown examples were not "rolling start".
    That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.
    So you are basically saying the low 0-60mph is worth nothing? Also since when did MRA become important on Hairpin Road?

    Other than that 30 MRA less than it's contender the S1 seems strange to me, but that's already in Review I guess and wo am I to judge.
    Sorry, total brain freeze! I'll reword in a sec.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. Because of the poor conditions, the cars can’t get their power down, they can only go as fast as traction allows. You can see when a car is doing this because the orange triangle appears above it. 4WD/off-road tires have a lot of traction, but even they struggle in the snow. That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.
    This sounds perfectly plausible in game, although IRL it didn’t have these issues. But the elephant in the room is: why does the S4 have such poor MRA anyway? 
  • xaratsarhsxaratsarhs Posts: 381 ✭✭✭
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. Because of the poor conditions, the cars can’t get their power down, they can only go as fast as traction allows. You can see when a car is doing this because the orange triangle appears above it. 4WD/off-road tires have a lot of traction, but even they struggle in the snow. That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.

    So the cars that are specifically dizened to perform in real life under this "poor" conditions , in game they are nerfed like "normal" cars.



  • Hutch_DmitriHutch_Dmitri Posts: 248 admin
    BoxtaS said:
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. Because of the poor conditions, the cars can’t get their power down, they can only go as fast as traction allows. You can see when a car is doing this because the orange triangle appears above it. 4WD/off-road tires have a lot of traction, but even they struggle in the snow. That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.
    This sounds perfectly plausible in game, although IRL it didn’t have these issues. But the elephant in the room is: why does the S4 have such poor MRA anyway? 
    The rolling start was used as an analogy (yes I did ask the team, wasn't my own words). 

    Low traction takes out the advantage of 0-60 in the cases above. If you can't get traction, having a low 0-60 doesn't help. 

    MRA is calculated from the time to 60mph and 100mph, based on the stats which are given to us by a third party. If there's a problem, it's going to be looked at in the next big car update! 
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    What time does a stock S4 do 0-60 on gravel IG?

    It’s quite a difficult one to get the stats and performance right I think as IRL it’s going to perform better on gravel than tarmac but as we know, IG off road tyres don’t perform too well on that surface and the stats and RQ are based on dry tarmac. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Yeh as expected then. 

    Have you got a dry tarmac time?
  • TopDrives40778TopDrives40778 Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, regarding the Delta S4...

    It is important to understand the impact of Rolling Start and poor traction on a 0-60. With the Rolling start having a low 0-60 is not going to help as much), but the off-road one is a bit more subtle. Because of the poor conditions, the cars can’t get their power down, they can only go as fast as traction allows. You can see when a car is doing this because the orange triangle appears above it. 4WD/off-road tires have a lot of traction, but even they struggle in the snow. That means that two cars with the same traction (e.g. both 4WD/off-road tires) will be limited to the exact same acceleration up to 35mph.Their performance then depends on their acceleration from 35mph. The S4 Rally has much worse 60-100 MRA (61) than cars mentioned above, which is why it's losing.
    Thanks for the responses Dmitri.  I've stressed before (to the previous Community Manager) and I will stress again with you the importance of not referring to MRA except in very specific instances, as this leads to confusion and ultimately misinformation.  What you are referencing in this instance is the actually 60-100 acceleration time for the two cars being discussed (the Delta S4 Rally and the Delta HF Integrale Evo).  The S4 is in fact not slower in 60-100 acceleration, 3.85s compared 4.23s for the HF Integrale Evo).  Perhaps when the team has more team to devote to this we could get a better understanding for the reason for the race results.  We really appreciate your regular interaction and willingness to get answers.


  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 917 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    So very high performance rally cars are best for dry asphalt city streets.

    Seems that game engine cant deal with those ultra rally cars in heavy offroad.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    REALAIS said:
    So very high performance rally cars are best for dry asphalt city streets.

    Seems that game engine cant deal with those ultra rally cars in heavy offroad.
    That seems correct yeh, which is pretty silly when you think of the tyres, but I can’t see an easy fix at all. 
  • Leo250Leo250 Posts: 17
    edited July 2020
    Did anyone else noticed that lancia delta s4 has traction problems eaven on dry asphalt? Nobody seems to mention that here. I find it wierd since chiron sport or any other car that i have with low 0-60 doesnt behave like that. It is like this lancia has the old physics applyed to her, similar to what lc2 had pre-tracion ( and many other fast rwd cars ) update. Try to run it on dry hairpin road and you will se the tracion light on every corner.
  • Yama_sanYama_san Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    Is it only me having lot of strange results on the G-force test especially (currently in the Veyron finals)?

    How can it be a tie - mine is even slightly lighter:



  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Engine Upgrade Traction Bonus
  • Yama_sanYama_san Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    Damn, I was sure it was something ridiculous like that. :(

    But I'm sure there have been some debate on this already lol (I probably missed it).
  • ojlerouxojleroux Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    Not expected...ok, it’s lighter...

  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 421 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Guess Traction Control is thrown out the window
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ETB bonus
  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 421 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    iirc 233 Zonda C12 also beats 233 Gallardo on g-force
  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 421 ✭✭✭
    yep 233 Zonda C12 beats 233 Gallardo. So much for traction control
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wait, was that 699 v 699 above, in the wet?
  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 421 ✭✭✭
    Above that was 699 Gallardo vs 969 Zonda C12. Photo below is using a 699 Zonda C12 to compare. 
  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 917 ✭✭✭✭
    TC is not significant bonus in general.
  • hifichrishifichris Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
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