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Club Events Season 2 Balance Update



  • MSteeLMSteeL Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭✭✭
    common snow hillclimb... Lol
  • tichoblintichoblin Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I remember Tim promised to add high RQ events. The highest I see atm is 68RQ - wide field to use my legends.. If the can’t even lie creatively how are they supposed to design anything good
  • TopDivesTopDives Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭
    In 2 days we will know the outcome of the IG poll. It's going to be close! You might want to leave it up for another week just in case 😂😂😂
  • JacoJaco Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    You want less smurfing? Then make rewards enticing. People smurfed because it earned them more cash + gold. Make it rewarding at the top end so that players can get as much or more cash without smurfing and they shall stop. 
    This sums up all the game’s smarfing issues in one paragraph. 

    People smarf, not because they enjoy it, but because it’s more valuable than doing your best. Change that and the problem goes away. 

    Why are the prizes so stingy? Why is 10th place worth the same at 3rd place? Why do you get the same prize picks for beating a smarf hand as you do a good one? 

    “Lose to win” could be killed off so easily with a few tweaks to prize structures. 

    The irony is, now the daily is gone it’s essential to smarf the other events even more. Especially when the trophy brackets mean that long term players are fighting over an aluminium & 75 gold in try series prelims. I mean seriously what do they expect!? 
    I hope you have considered to be aware of the inflation of the game? It is quite a thing, you know?
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    krystian said:
    BoxtaS said:
    bobdylan said:
    Well..... iv ran out of money 
    Me too. Broke. I might even have to play the club events 🙄
    No prize cars for sale?
    Lol, don’t tempt me.

    911 GT3 RS 4.0 for almost 100 plastics is actually quite a deal! 
  • binnerbinner Posts: 790 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lol @hillclimber you're a hated man over in the IGF 
  • MrpiratepeteMrpiratepete Posts: 967 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TopDives said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Wow, this sure is a spicy thread! I go on holiday for a couple of weeks and look what happens.

    The good news is it looks like everyone here wants largely the same things:
    1) Smarfers can continue to make their cash/gold without putting in a lot more time
    2) F2P'ers / less engaged players don't get put off
    3) The game should be as fun as we can make it

    I appreciate the response, i really do. 
    Players enter the club events to do what exactly? Get cash. To do what? Buy ceramics. For what reason? To get cars and a better garage. This is and has been the ultimate goal since the beginning.

    If we agree on the above sentence then: Call it daily event, call it regular event, call it club event, call it Pikachu on a pogo stick if you like, the end goal does not change. 

    By removing daily events you just eliminated a source for players that don't have the time to play continuously to satisfy that goal. 

    Tim, the solution is right in front of you all. Keep the daily events, develop on club events and fresh content, players have a choice on what they do, everyone is happy. 
    Basically what he said.
    You have the choice. Row back, reinstall the daily events to redress the negative feedback and everyone will be happy again. Or stay with you point and you will kill the game.
    What I dont understand is you lack of understanding. From a player perspective: We only loose if you remove the daily events. So why dont you want to understand that?
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    End of Season rewards

    For transparency here are the criteria, and current rewards:

    Waaaait a sec, so becoming an MVP for your club, being the very best player in one of the third group and after a week of battles...

    is worth measly 7500 cash and 100 gold??
    yeah, 20 events with 30 wins in each gives you 15k cash. woooooow ba dum tss
  • HvalenHvalen Posts: 298 ✭✭✭
    TimBut said:
    okay, let's try to play this. okay we are dominating. 

    but thank to these guys we are losing 2k points. 

    2k points, seriously?
    **** teamplay. Screw this "social" play. 

    don't get me wrong, I don't blame those guys. But the system is total ****, leaving me no choice but to just late join and get some cash.  No motivation to play this out 
    Yeah, after going 40-0 I was surprised to see that we didn't win this event. How much cash did I get for winning 40 times (each and every time with enough points to easily secure 3 stars in any other event) you may ask? 5200. No new D or E cars, no gold.

    Not worth any time or effort.
  • KarhgathKarhgath Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Hutch_Tim said:

    Not having as big a source of D cars, and even E and F is an interesting point. That does a few things to how easy it is to collect and upgrade cars of different rarity tiers. We might be able to bring some of that back by changing regular prize boards, or by other means. That's certainly something to think about.

    Good to have your informed and balanced thoughts on the topic.
    Assuming you manage to get rewards right, the following is the most important and URGENT point in my mind:

    ”Not having as big a source of D cars, and even E and F is an interesting point. That does a few things to how easy it is to collect and upgrade cars of different rarity tiers. We might be able to bring some of that back by changing regular prize boards, or by other means. That's certainly something to think about.”

    Right now the whole balance of garage build up is handicaped severely, this will lead to less ability to gather and upgrade cars, prompting people to give up on some events and be less engaged. If I cant upgrade C/D/E/F cars easily (ie I need to go actively buy **** steel/plastic packs) I will probably give up on playing an event competitively, just play 5 tickets once a day or something.
    No way I could bring myself to buy platic/steel/alu when that same igc can be used to buy a ceramic, ie a chance, even if small, to get a legendary.

    100% this!

    This affects the whole game balance - the only way to progress in Challenges is to get money and D/E cars for fusing. Since the challenges are so specialized, I would guess only a very very small % of players have the adequate cars already.

    Case in point, I was progressing super well in the current challenges, nearly through the Lancia challenges... and this hits. Now I am stuck, I have no way to progress - I need to farm the normal challenges, but people are less dedicated to smurfing there. I get 1-2 D food, that I add to my garage to fuse, then I need to sell thing from my actual garage to upgrade.

    This is bad.

    And I play the club. I played 30+ minutes on one single event, spamming races against hutch bot in a battle that was a landslide win already - but now the events last 2x times longer, so even less rewards. Result of 30+ minutes of spamming, finished MVP, platinum participation - 5800 cash. That is about 2 upgrades... but still no D/E food, so I need to sacrifice actual cars in my garage to fuse for challenges.

    I think I will try to get the ceramic pack in the challenge and throw the towel - I cannot start killing my whole garage just to finish challenges now. It was already hard to get through many challenges, now the cost is just way too high.

    I am not a competitive guy. I like events because it allows me to craft a good hand/strategy, do good matching, but the competition part is not very high for me. Challenges was what I loved about the game. Club is not a replacement of challenges, but would need to be.

    Couple of suggestions:
    - Give more free D/E/F daily upgrades in club events, with high max per day
    - The boards for challenges should ONLY give D/E food
    - Increase each cash rewards for challenges sets by a lot

  • KarhgathKarhgath Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
     @Hutch_Robin A big issue here for me is that you earn less per race/minute the more you do. I've run 3 clubs races at varying participation. These were all bot hands so quickly spammable. The reward per minute play obviously would reduce drastically against real players where you have to consider placement...but at least it might be interesting.

    Win, Platinum participation, MVP performance, Rookie rank
    50 races in 25 minutes with 5800 reward or 232 per minute

    Win, Gold participation, Gold performance, Rookie rank
    15 races in 7.5 minutes with 3800 reward or 507 per minute

    Win, Silver participation, Silver performance, Rookie rank
    5 races in 2.5 minutes with 1800 reward or 720 per minute

    It should be more rewarding for putting in the extra effort. I have no incentive to put in an MVP performance if I'm earning 1/3rd cash income (for time spent playing) of just putting in 5 races and getting on with my day.

    Depends, they probably see it as income per hour or such. Right now, with the super long club events, if you do have 25 minutes to lose, it's much better to spam hutch bots for 25 minutes and try to get MVP. What suck is when you invest those 25-30 minutes and do not get MVP - you get about 1000 less cash, which is worse. And we're talking about competition against your own team.

    So yeah, in terms purely of income, it's "ok" I guess if you have an algorithm calculating income per hour median and such (which seems to be what Hutch is doing) - since you can't play more than 1 event, if you have more time, you better spam it to get more cash per hour.

    For us tho, not very fun - I'd rather not gamble on getting MVP, just get 5 races and log back later. I am surely not the only one, and that defeats the "limited ticket sucks" argument from Hutch - this is pretty much the equivalent of the daily, minus the challenge and with delayed rewards at the end of week.

    I understand what they are trying to do (standardize mean income for everyone and not have smurfers get much higher income than everyone) but they've missed so many side effect and impacts and completely lost the player's perspective.

    Look, I am ok with curbing smurfing - it's ok, it's not intended behavior, a loophole, but they've mixed up the need for some new gameplay with this and tickets limits and stale dailies and ended up with something that did not address any of those issues specifically and made everything worse.

  • JackyQuJackyQu Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lorsky said:
    I can understand, I understand the DAILY EVENT canceling is making  way to the new CLUB EVENT, that could make all the players focus on the new event. So, I understand.

    BUT ! ! !     I DO NOT ACCEPT IT !

    I don't think canceling the DAILY will make this game better. I don't think DAILY and CLUB conflict with each other. If HUTCH thinks the CLUB is enough to completely replace DAILY, I do not think so, at least it does not yet.  The problem is the CLUB award is not good as well as the DAILY did, because after we won one game in DAILY, we can get awards like cash, gold, or cars. And what about the CLUB does? We take a long time on the CLUB evnet and finally get around 2000 cash (boosted)? Honestly that is enough, it means players can spend more time on CLUB to make more cash, and I did. Anyway that is the benifit of the CLUB event, and now I am goning to talk about the defect. I spent more than 3 hours on the CLUB to make cash, and the absurd point is 70% (or more) of my battles I were fight with HUTCH bots... At the begining I think the CLUB matches were easy coz we just fought with the bots and won easily, and now actually I start getting bored on it, I even doubt HUTCH was showing their staffs by this way...(btw, Lara is a nice girl XD) at least I saw many staffs who never appeared on the DAILY events.

    So, IMO the DAILY event should not be canceled, it could be saved with the CLUB and they will make this game better. I wish HUTCH could return the DAILY and improve the CLUB step by step until the players think it is good enough to replace the DAILY.
    Totally agree
  • KarhgathKarhgath Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    Although this revision is very good, I think you're making a big mistake killing daily events. It will **** off quite a bit of the fan base as it was a huge part of our incomes 
    Worst Hutch idea ever
    Sorry for the long post, I did a quick calculation with the above, take these numbers with a grain of salt, I did not proof it and might have invalid assumptions.

    MVP: Max season awards, 7 events per day/30 races per event = 210 races/day = about 280K cash per season
    Average: Average season awards, 90 events per day/5 races per event = 300 races/day = about 280K cash per season
    Sniping: Low season awards, 520 events per day/1 race per event = 520 races/day = about 280K cash per season
    vs Smurfing: about 35 races per day depending on efficiency = about 280k cash per week
    vs Winning All Dailies: about 40-60 races per day (maybe gold spend) = about 7 ceramic (more or less 225K)

    So you need to "work" and spend 5x to 10x more time in club than you needed in daily for same net effect.

    As for gold, the difference with smurfing is not even close to 1 ceramic per week.

    The only thing they can compare the club against are non-smurfing players, non-top player winning - for those that compete in dailies to finish average and at best get a alu pack, it might probably be an improvement and a change of scenery.

    The only conclusion from the above I have is that they want to remove smurfing explicitly (bad), and also force top player with godly garage to play more (good I guess?).

    Also the less talked about issue is fusing for events/challenges - for example, to get cash + food, smurfing is needed if you want to react to an event or more so to a challenge where you need to fuse. There is no other way to get quick cash now.

    Now with club events, say goodbye to finishing challenges unless you keep a large cash pool or have already maxed your cars needed for the challenge.

    Removing the daily and adding more specific events is good, but side effect is that people will need to smurf those interesting events now, instead of competing, so that they can upgrade for challenges and the like.

    So, overall:
    - Smurfing daily is dead. Average and new players will need to invest real money, leave their job/studies to play more, or slow to a grind
    - Top garage players will need to (and can now) invest even more time into the game (but not more money, as there is no incentive to invest real money to improve club events/win if you are top player already)
    - Upgrading your garage is now slow as molasses for most people, especially Super Rare cards and lower where you had a steady influx of food, might even prevent many people from finishing challenges as they'll be cash-strapped during.
    - The above has the side effect of making it doubly-worse on club events - you need a strong, low RQ garage, but can't upgrade it as much anymore without smurfing, making you less competitive, requiring you to work event more to improve.
    - Club are more dynamic than daily, might be more fun, sure
    - New specific events will be smurfed instead of being competitive events to compensate

    Still has yet to find the silver lining in all of this. Maybe if we get more free upgrades per day in club it might at least help a bit.

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