Thanks for the response Tim. But come on, are we just gonna see the statistics analisys in the next few months instead of doing something?? Also there is no special offer strategy if you offer specific CF every darn ceramic event. That is just plain milking.
Also enlighten me how and average T3 player can make 1500 gold a week. Please
All very interesting. Didn't see any stats in there about if people are having as much fun as they used to.
Oh yes, I didn't include my regular disclaimer that data doesn't cover the whole picture. But I did think it was useful to see what was behind the complaints people had, and that I think informs us on the 'fun' a bit. Listening to what people are saying remains an important part of the bigger picture.
Thanks for the response Tim. But come on, are we just gonna see the statistics analisys in the next few months instead of doing something?? Also there is no special offer strategy if you offer specific CF every darn ceramic event. That is just plain milking.
Also enlighten me how and average T3 player can make 1500 gold a week. Please
We're going to rebalance Club events next, that is doing 'something', even if it's not exactly what some people want. This is an ongoing thing.
No, the average player won't make 1500 a week, but quite a few players can, and do. Even those who make 500 a week still buy CF's from time to time, so the general point stands - offers aren't only for people who spend.
@Hutch_Tim I don't think this is what the players need at the moment. I don't think you need a whole wall of text to convince us that somehow, 1250$ is better than 4000$ on prize boards. I don't think that is necessary.
I do also think it’s important to remember that an active player can earn around 1,500 gold a week...
As for this one... I don't think so, especially after you guys curtailed the prize boards. Increasing elite resources benefits mostly the elite. Making purchasing gold cheaper, for example, devalues the free gold. Only by increasing the communal resources can the lower tier players continue to grow and prosper and maybe bring a fight with the bigger whales. The prize boards are pretty much most we have left now. While it's nice to see you guys put more diversity of cars into the boards I don't think the F's are necessary. Maybe a C's here and there. Other communal resources include: Club end-of-season prizes (but clubs are boring asf), and individual events doesn't give prize cards. Event prizes (but good prizes are dominated by high-paying players mostly) Ad gold (Really want this to increase) Garage/individual card value.
Thanks Tim, but you are making a huge mistake by trusting your statistics over the voices here and in the IGF. I, and I’m sure many others, have continued the grind these past couple weeks so that I haven't lost ground when you eventually change your minds. The game isn’t sustainable for me in its current state, plain and simple mate.
And this is from a player that can finish tier 1/2 in 90% of events. God only knows how you expect lower players to put up with this.
All very interesting. Didn't see any stats in there about if people are having as much fun as they used to.
Oh yes, I didn't include my regular disclaimer that data doesn't cover the whole picture. But I did think it was useful to see what was behind the complaints people had, and that I think informs us on the 'fun' a bit. Listening to what people are saying remains an important part of the bigger picture.
Thanks for the response Tim. But come on, are we just gonna see the statistics analisys in the next few months instead of doing something?? Also there is no special offer strategy if you offer specific CF every darn ceramic event. That is just plain milking.
Also enlighten me how and average T3 player can make 1500 gold a week. Please
We're going to rebalance Club events next, that is doing 'something', even if it's not exactly what some people want. This is an ongoing thing.
No, the average player won't make 1500 a week, but quite a few players can, and do. Even those who make 500 a week still buy CF's from time to time, so the general point stands - offers aren't only for people who spend.
Arent regular events still no. 1 priority in TD and clubs are just extra? Im sure if people dont find amusement in regular events, then this "rebalance" is just a waste of time. Sorry.
Yeah, those quite a few probably threw in few K bucks for this. So why the hutch team thinks this is a good way to keep new players in the game?
Im amazed about how stubborn the Hutch team is. Experienced community is giving you good suggestions and viable oppinions, yet they still hit brick wall. It seems like you want this game to end.
@Hutch_Tim Is the rebalance a general strategy to move towards a lower income across the board? It seems that way to me. This is a genuine question, not tongue-in-cheek. The reason I ask is because the general concensus is that our daily income is lower, because a lot of players are unwilling to put in the extra time required to make the same amount of money. I would also think that forcing players to put more time into the game to make the same progress is unsustainable and will lead to burn out.
A rebalance of clubs is coming, from history that suggests another lowering of income, but this time from clubs. I hope you don't mind me saying, but this feels like players are being squeezed from all sides.
Hindsight is 20-20, but I am of the opinion now that clubs would've been a good addition in the future, but not yet. New cars and new tracks would've been great to keep things fresh and challenging. Clubs just feels like a labour intensive game mode and we're suffering financially cos we're unable to put the time into it. Add the fact that clubs doesn't make sense to many, and somewhat infuriating at times also and I can't see the sentiment changing without an overhaul.
First off, I didn’t have time to conpletely read/follow this discussion, so sorry if I say something that is sad already/many times.
In my opinion, the solution to this is the same as with Daily Events. You (Hutch) tried it, got feedback from players, figured out it isn’t what players want, and should set it back to how it was.
Again, if a reason is given why this isn’t possible (I can’t think of any, but still), I am sorry. I just wanted to quickly share my opionion.
Disappointing answer. While i am one who migrated to clubs last week, im loosing interest in the game faster than i can select a new 3xsuperrare, 2x japanes commons with red doors. Statistics may not telll the whole story, especially if the majority of the playerbase tells the opposite. Statistics dont measure the fun people have! I will continue my latejoinparty for the moment (which won me ceramics in all events btw,highly recommeneded), but somehow im also giving up.
You can keep repeating yourself week after week @Hutch_Tim , still doesn’t change the fact that we have to spend a lot more time in the game in order to make what we used to. This is far than ideal for myself and many others. The ONE thing the community unanimously agreed on was the how boring and labour intensive clubs is, and that’s where you plan to rebalance earnings? Is anyone even listening to us?
Feel free to check my account as well and I allow you to post the results here as well, because I feel like I'm playing the same amount, maybe slightly less, but earning more 🤔
Edit: my in-game name is TopDrives20446, because of the still existing bug 🙂
@Hutch_Tim thank you taking the time to research the topic and write such a detailed answer. I really appreciate that you keep in contact with us.
It might be entirely correct, that the cash flow is more or less similar if you look deep into the numbers. But here's the thing, TD is not a model of economy, we're not perfectly rational actors all the time. The game feels significantly more grindy, feels less fun, feels like we're earning less. You can't expect us to do a math homework on our income to convince ourselves that, hmm okay, my earnings are only 2% down under my standard routine therefore I still like the game.
If it doesn't feel fun we'll stop doing it.
Also please keep in mind that over time the number of available cars balooned to an incredible number. In order to buy packs while still having enough to upgrade cars we need more cash. As much as we used to have will still not be enough, especially for fresher players.
1. Play dailies and regular events where you are matched up against guys who have multiple upgraded legendaries and struggle to get Tier 3. Not fun. 2. Play clubs where you spend an hour mindlessly racing 35 times in a 45 minute event to win $4000. Do this for 4 hours and you might make enough cash to buy a ceramic pack? Nope. No thanks. 3. Farm to upgrade your garage but the reduced prize boards have made this a waste of time.
Sorry Tim. I’ve tried to embrace the changes but the motivation to play is dwindling...
@Hutch_Tim Gaming is supposed to be fun. Smarfing allows us to have fun without having to spend too much time on this, and still be able to make progress. Analysis of time spent versus relative returns is clearly not about having fun. And while you may be able to spend 37% more time on the game, I have a family, and a business to run, and unlike you this game isn’t my business, so I can’t spend that extra time indefinitely.
All the statistics in the world don't alter perception. If people perceive that this is less fun and more of a grind, you scientifically demonstrating that feeling negative about it in fact generates 8% more cash really won’t improve the user experience.
I stop playing games when they stop being fun. I don’t doggedly carry on to get 100% completion. If the current trend continues, it’s going to stop being fun sooner rather than later.
@Hutch_Tim Is the rebalance a general strategy to move towards a lower income across the board? It seems that way to me. This is a genuine question, not tongue-in-cheek. The reason I ask is because the general concensus is that our daily income is lower, because a lot of players are unwilling to put in the extra time required to make the same amount of money. I would also think that forcing players to put more time into the game to make the same progress is unsustainable and will lead to burn out.
THIS! I don't get it why @Hutch_Tim won't understand this...
It's repetetive by now, every week tons of players express their feelings, make valid arguments and bring up solutions to the problems and changes you made with the game. Everyone here in the forum (exceptmyabe 1-2 People) thinks that the current way that top drives is going, is the wrong way. And after a Week, the only thing Hutch is doing, is to pick up our weakest arguments and post a brick wall of statistics and excuses that are totally, and I mean it, totally missing the point. It feels like the only thing you do since the daily fiasko is damage controll.
I cant express my disappointment enough in this but hows this. I may have been 1 of your 7 selections Tim as I have been pretty vocal on the subject. I was earning far less than previous levels although I have played waaaay less also.
However, this response shows me this is the way the game is going forward, so I'm done. My stats are now 100% less play time, 100% less real cash spend. So long and thanks for all the fish.
I cant express my disappointment enough in this but hows this. I may have been 1 of your 7 selections Tim as I have been pretty vocal on the subject. I was earning far less than previous levels although I have played waaaay less also.
However, this response shows me this is the way the game is going forward, so I'm done. My stats are now 100% less play time, 100% less real cash spend. So long and thanks for all the fish.
He did it and uninstalled the game. And i do understand his reasons very well.
I was so excited when I found out about this game! It is honestly really addictive and fun! Correction: it was...
Adding so many new cars is fun and probably what most players want, but more cars require more cash. This way, the game stays fun, since you can get and tune many of the new cars. However, we get less cash for the same effort and rebalancing Club Events doesn’t make it more fun in my opinion.
The solution is simple, bring back the old prize boards! Maybe even increase the old prize board, because of what I explained above.
For now, I play once a day just to get my prizes of events, but I can’t take it much longer... Hopefully I won’t delete the game, but we will see...
Yeah, Prizeboards are nerfed too extreme. 3x Rare 2x Uncommon 1x Common 3x 3 gold 6x 750$
I would be more happy about this.
When you implement changes you should do that slightly. Added Clubs in game and overall cash is getting more and more? I would understand some kind of nerf like 10% and then you can move forward and look at statistics. But not 40% straight away, it will make more harm than good.
The information is clear. Playing much more, to gain a little more.
Let's say I work 8 hours a day and earn $ 100;
Now I need to work 12 hours a day and I earn $ 108.
That's what you're showing us, this is neither good nor legal.
I would quit my job and find another.
I do what you do, smarf at all events (less tri series), and whenever I play tickets at regular events, I enter into any club event with easy restrictions, (since no one deserves to be picking cars ever). I make money, but I need to work a lot more, to earn a little more. Is that what you want?
I don't even play clubs. I just join and play 1 match and close it. I get 100+ gold in 2 days regardless if we win or lose. I don't waste my time and still get decent gold.
This is my experience with the game so far after 9.0
1) I play maybe 2-3 club events every 2 days. I feel bad because I'm not helping my team much but it's not so much fun.
2) I have actively tried to finish high up.in regular events to get T2 and a ceramic. Unfortunately the events end at 1AM here. So I'm almost always leapfrogged by other players while I'm asleep. This end and start time has been my number 1 problem with the game for almost 2 years, yet it's not something that features in things to resolve.
3) what I love most in the game is to open packs and hope to get a car I dont have. Sadly with no smurfing and t3 finishes in events, I'm unable to do so. Its sucking the life out of the game for me.
4) I may be in the minority here, but i think you overdid the BMW in the game. Is it really necessary to include every single model and engine capacity of BMW in the game? RUF and VW are very balanced but BMW with its massive UR and Epic roster is too big. I'm afraid if you include more fords and other cars in such upgrades we will have a bloated full roster which nerfs the pack drop rate very heavily. I prefer the system used for VW with heavy loading on lower side and some super nice cars for UR and up.
Thanks for reading. There have been some good solutions mentioned on the forums. The prize boards with common and UC are nice but the cash flow Is too low. Please update the cash amount we get from prize boards . Maybe a bonus slot or SR car once in a while will spice things up. I agree with the gold reduction in board since we do get some more from clubs.
I don't even play clubs. I just join and play 1 match and close it. I get 100+ gold in 2 days regardless if we win or lose. I don't waste my time and still get decent gold.
You don't even need to play 1 match. I just go in every few days, pick up the free cash & gold, don't ever race.
Yeh, I’ve stopped playing it altogether now I know I don’t have to. Not much point unless you buy the accumulator thing to get extra cash and enter loads of events at the end, crazy set up.
I don't even play clubs. I just join and play 1 match and close it. I get 100+ gold in 2 days regardless if we win or lose. I don't waste my time and still get decent gold.
You don't even need to play 1 match. I just go in every few days, pick up the free cash & gold, don't ever race.
Wait, you still get the Club End of Season rewards even after participating 0 races a season?
I don't even play clubs. I just join and play 1 match and close it. I get 100+ gold in 2 days regardless if we win or lose. I don't waste my time and still get decent gold.
You don't even need to play 1 match. I just go in every few days, pick up the free cash & gold, don't ever race.
Wait, you still get the Club End of Season rewards even after participating 0 races a season?
Comments
Also there is no special offer strategy if you offer specific CF every darn ceramic event. That is just plain milking.
Also enlighten me how and average T3 player can make 1500 gold a week. Please
We're going to rebalance Club events next, that is doing 'something', even if it's not exactly what some people want. This is an ongoing thing.
No, the average player won't make 1500 a week, but quite a few players can, and do. Even those who make 500 a week still buy CF's from time to time, so the general point stands - offers aren't only for people who spend.
I don't think you need a whole wall of text to convince us that somehow, 1250$ is better than 4000$ on prize boards.
I don't think that is necessary.
As for this one... I don't think so, especially after you guys curtailed the prize boards.
Increasing elite resources benefits mostly the elite. Making purchasing gold cheaper, for example, devalues the free gold.
Only by increasing the communal resources can the lower tier players continue to grow and prosper and maybe bring a fight with the bigger whales. The prize boards are pretty much most we have left now. While it's nice to see you guys put more diversity of cars into the boards I don't think the F's are necessary. Maybe a C's here and there.
Other communal resources include:
Club end-of-season prizes (but clubs are boring asf), and individual events doesn't give prize cards.
Event prizes (but good prizes are dominated by high-paying players mostly)
Ad gold (Really want this to increase)
Garage/individual card value.
Inflation is not the argument.
And this is from a player that can finish tier 1/2 in 90% of events. God only knows how you expect lower players to put up with this.
Yeah, those quite a few probably threw in few K bucks for this. So why the hutch team thinks this is a good way to keep new players in the game?
A rebalance of clubs is coming, from history that suggests another lowering of income, but this time from clubs. I hope you don't mind me saying, but this feels like players are being squeezed from all sides.
Hindsight is 20-20, but I am of the opinion now that clubs would've been a good addition in the future, but not yet. New cars and new tracks would've been great to keep things fresh and challenging. Clubs just feels like a labour intensive game mode and we're suffering financially cos we're unable to put the time into it. Add the fact that clubs doesn't make sense to many, and somewhat infuriating at times also and I can't see the sentiment changing without an overhaul.
What is the data saying this week?
In my opinion, the solution to this is the same as with Daily Events. You (Hutch) tried it, got feedback from players, figured out it isn’t what players want, and should set it back to how it was.
Again, if a reason is given why this isn’t possible (I can’t think of any, but still), I am sorry. I just wanted to quickly share my opionion.
Edit: my in-game name is TopDrives20446, because of the still existing bug 🙂
thank you taking the time to research the topic and write such a detailed answer. I really appreciate that you keep in contact with us.
It might be entirely correct, that the cash flow is more or less similar if you look deep into the numbers. But here's the thing, TD is not a model of economy, we're not perfectly rational actors all the time. The game feels significantly more grindy, feels less fun, feels like we're earning less. You can't expect us to do a math homework on our income to convince ourselves that, hmm okay, my earnings are only 2% down under my standard routine therefore I still like the game.
If it doesn't feel fun we'll stop doing it.
Also please keep in mind that over time the number of available cars balooned to an incredible number. In order to buy packs while still having enough to upgrade cars we need more cash. As much as we used to have will still not be enough, especially for fresher players.
1. Play dailies and regular events where you are matched up against guys who have multiple upgraded legendaries and struggle to get Tier 3. Not fun.
2. Play clubs where you spend an hour mindlessly racing 35 times in a 45 minute event to win $4000. Do this for 4 hours and you might make enough cash to buy a ceramic pack? Nope. No thanks.
3. Farm to upgrade your garage but the reduced prize boards have made this a waste of time.
Sorry Tim. I’ve tried to embrace the changes but the motivation to play is dwindling...
All the statistics in the world don't alter perception. If people perceive that this is less fun and more of a grind, you scientifically demonstrating that feeling negative about it in fact generates 8% more cash really won’t improve the user experience.
I stop playing games when they stop being fun. I don’t doggedly carry on to get 100% completion. If the current trend continues, it’s going to stop being fun sooner rather than later.
However, this response shows me this is the way the game is going forward, so I'm done. My stats are now 100% less play time, 100% less real cash spend. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Adding so many new cars is fun and probably what most players want, but more cars require more cash. This way, the game stays fun, since you can get and tune many of the new cars. However, we get less cash for the same effort and rebalancing Club Events doesn’t make it more fun in my opinion.
The solution is simple, bring back the old prize boards! Maybe even increase the old prize board, because of what I explained above.
For now, I play once a day just to get my prizes of events, but I can’t take it much longer... Hopefully I won’t delete the game, but we will see...
3x Rare
2x Uncommon
1x Common
3x 3 gold
6x 750$
I would be more happy about this.
When you implement changes you should do that slightly.
Added Clubs in game and overall cash is getting more and more? I would understand some kind of nerf like 10% and then you can move forward and look at statistics. But not 40% straight away, it will make more harm than good.
1) I play maybe 2-3 club events every 2 days. I feel bad because I'm not helping my team much but it's not so much fun.
2) I have actively tried to finish high up.in regular events to get T2 and a ceramic. Unfortunately the events end at 1AM here. So I'm almost always leapfrogged by other players while I'm asleep. This end and start time has been my number 1 problem with the game for almost 2 years, yet it's not something that features in things to resolve.
3) what I love most in the game is to open packs and hope to get a car I dont have. Sadly with no smurfing and t3 finishes in events, I'm unable to do so. Its sucking the life out of the game for me.
4) I may be in the minority here, but i think you overdid the BMW in the game. Is it really necessary to include every single model and engine capacity of BMW in the game? RUF and VW are very balanced but BMW with its massive UR and Epic roster is too big. I'm afraid if you include more fords and other cars in such upgrades we will have a bloated full roster which nerfs the pack drop rate very heavily. I prefer the system used for VW with heavy loading on lower side and some super nice cars for UR and up.
Thanks for reading. There have been some good solutions mentioned on the forums. The prize boards with common and UC are nice but the cash flow Is too low. Please update the cash amount we get from prize boards . Maybe a bonus slot or SR car once in a while will spice things up.
I agree with the gold reduction in board since we do get some more from clubs.