I haven’t posted much lately, as I’ve been unhappy with the current state of the game, but I’ll throw my two cents in, even though it most likely won’t matter anyways.
1) Your statistics may say one thing, but my feeling of the game is that I’m cash poor. Just maxing a Super Rare feels like a big hit to my bank account compared to before the change.
2) I used to be able to open ceramics on a fairly regular basis. I haven’t bought a single one in over a week now, because I’m worried about my cash balance.
3) I’ve tried to play clubs, but it’s just a grind that isn’t fun. Smurfing was a grind, but I could do it quickly and move on. Clubs just feel like a huge time-sink with minimal rewards .... and you’re talking about decreasing those.
4) I understand that adding Commons to the prize board was requested by some users (Not a fan of it), but I think too many were added. It now feels as though every other card on a prize board is an F or E, which sell for paltry sums of money. I’d rather go back to buying common packs only when I need them.
Even if you are completely correct, and players are on average making more cash than before, the perception is that we are not. In keeping customers happy, perception is more important.
P.S. If you want to, feel free to publicly release my stats on income history.
This thread has basically become a thread of us repeating ourselves and Tim pushing for his statistics which don't accurately reflect how much everyone hates this new system. I miss the old days where I was making bank. Now I'm just poor and sad af.
1) Your statistics may say one thing, but my feeling of the game is that I’m cash poor. Just maxing a Super Rare feels like a big hit to my bank account compared to before the change.
I couldn't agree more with this statement. I'm running stock (I mean 000) Vauxalls in the blitz event as the impact of upgrading even a super rare is just too large at the moment. I cant speak for all the player base but the player base on this forum at least is clearly worse off post PL9.0. Balance update is an interesting way of putting it, seems more like a 'smurf nerf' than a balance update.
2) I used to be able to open ceramics on a fairly regular basis. I haven’t bought a single one in over a week now, because I’m worried about my cash balance.
The situation is bad, but it's not that bad. I'm still smarfing most events, where I have no chance for a top tier finish. By clearing the nerfed prizeboards and selling all the cars I can usually earn enough to buy two Ceramics per day. At the end of the day, or when I reach a milestone in the weekly challange, the cash I get is enough for a third one sometimes. So let's say I can buy 2-3 Ceramics daily. Before the "re-balance" that number was more like 4-5. These numbers are of course only true if I don't upgrade a single car meanwhile. And that's where the feeling of being poor comes from I think. We are all addicted to opening Ceramics, and after the nerf, we still want to open as much as we can. Now every upgrade and fuse feels like pulling a tooth, because we can barley open enough packs to satisfy our hunger. Before PL9 you could improve your garage a bit, and still open a decent number of packs. Now, you cannot really do either. That's what makes us feel the cash situation even worse than what the stats show.
2) I used to be able to open ceramics on a fairly regular basis. I haven’t bought a single one in over a week now, because I’m worried about my cash balance.
The situation is bad, but it's not that bad. I'm still smarfing most events, where I have no chance for a top tier finish. By clearing the nerfed prizeboards and selling all the cars I can usually earn enough to buy two Ceramics per day. At the end of the day, or when I reach a milestone in the weekly challange, the cash I get is enough for a third one sometimes. So let's say I can buy 2-3 Ceramics daily. Before the "re-balance" that number was more like 4-5. These numbers are of course only true if I don't upgrade a single car meanwhile. And that's where the feeling of being poor comes from I think. We are all addicted to opening Ceramics, and after the nerf, we still want to open as much as we can. Now every upgrade and fuse feels like pulling a tooth, because we can barley open enough packs to satisfy our hunger. Before PL9 you could improve your garage a bit, and still open a decent number of packs. Now, you cannot really do either. That's what makes us feel the cash situation even worse than what the stats show.
But because we open less ceramics we get less food as well for B and above. It's not just the fun of opening the packs.
The new economy has come about because it seems it necessary to withdraw some of the income due to the added revenue stream of clubs. The reason being because clubs has unlimited tickets.
what if we change to a system where you get a certain number of tickets you can choose to do with them as you wish, either you play clubs or you play regular events.
That way prize boards can be brought back to regular levels for events, and even introduced for clubs. players get to choose and play the part of the game that they enjoy the most, and Hutch doesn't need to give out any extra money and doesn't need to do any math to balance the economy at all
Thought of something similar. Clubs: Add tickets to clubs Max 10 tickets with 15 min refresh time Add prize boards as they are now to club events
Events: Remove dailies (oh i will get punched for that) Put "old" prize board to events.
This solution will move the attention from dailies to clubs (hutch wanted that in the first place). With the lower prize boards clubs have a instant return (I'm missing that right now). The low prize boards with 10 tickets to play are a good compromise from my point of view. Normal events will still have the good old prize boards and actually playing them makes sense (instead of late joining)
The new economy has come about because it seems it necessary to withdraw some of the income due to the added revenue stream of clubs. The reason being because clubs has unlimited tickets.
what if we change to a system where you get a certain number of tickets you can choose to do with them as you wish, either you play clubs or you play regular events.
That way prize boards can be brought back to regular levels for events, and even introduced for clubs. players get to choose and play the part of the game that they enjoy the most, and Hutch doesn't need to give out any extra money and doesn't need to do any math to balance the economy at all
Yes the whole mess started with clubs, and it's unlimited nature. Some players can make a good profit from Clubs, all the others are now complaining, and feel robbed. Making Clubs "not so unlimited" would could the balance back to normal.
The new economy has come about because it seems it necessary to withdraw some of the income due to the added revenue stream of clubs. The reason being because clubs has unlimited tickets.
what if we change to a system where you get a certain number of tickets you can choose to do with them as you wish, either you play clubs or you play regular events.
That way prize boards can be brought back to regular levels for events, and even introduced for clubs. players get to choose and play the part of the game that they enjoy the most, and Hutch doesn't need to give out any extra money and doesn't need to do any math to balance the economy at all
Yes the whole mess started with clubs, and it's unlimited nature. Some players can make a good profit from Clubs, all the others are now complaining, and feel robbed. Making Clubs "not so unlimited" would could the balance back to normal.
Like I said earlier:
5. Put (even) more thoughts into clubs please. Can u bring Prize Boards
to Clubs and remove the Daily again? Can you reduce the number of
Club-Events (fights over tiles) so the pressure and stress for players
is reduced?
The club races are limited through garage wear. In low RQ events u can race nearly unlimited, but the higher the rq, the less likely you are to do so, if you dont spend gold to repair your cars.
I would like to see the Club fight over tiles to be slown down. A longer duration means I'm stuck with my worn garage and just have to wait to cars to be refreshed. I would not have the opportunity to snipe 5 different tiles in 10 minutes. This would reduce the cash from won tiles and it would allow the introduction of prize boards to clubs. With prize boards in clubs (even the reduced ones), the Daily event could be abolished.
TLDR: Clubs dont need tickets because we have garage wear, but clubs need to be
(Of course I haven't thought this through, it is just a suggestion.)
@01718 Why remove dailies though? We just went through that whole debacle of removing something that players wanted. It is the easiest way to farm some cash from the game when you don't have that much time during the day.
The bottom line is, nothing should be removed from the game unless the majority of players want it gone. 93% of those polled wanted the daily in.
@Hutch_Tim that’s a good post and thanks for responding.
I believe it’s clear we’d still like the value of the prize boards restored. I, like most, only play clubs because we need to make up the cash difference so still a job in that respect, and in that way that’s the crucial difference with smarfing.
yeah ultimate, that happens when you get on somekind of greylist. Looks like someone whitelisted you again and we can read asll the missed stuff, welcome back .
@01718 Why remove dailies though? We just went through that whole debacle of removing something that players wanted. It is the easiest way to farm some cash from the game when you don't have that much time during the day.
The bottom line is, nothing should be removed from the game unless the majority of players want it gone. 93% of those polled wanted the daily in.
Clubs needs work, not dailies.
In my suggestion you get prize boards in Clubs. To take iNfLaTIon into account it would be reasonable to remove Daily events in a quid pro quo manner. Other reasons why I suggested the removal of Dailies under the assumption, that you get prize boards in clubs:
- it was the original intention of Hutch to remove Dailies
- Dailies were considered boring and have low tier prizes
- Players are stressed because there are so many opportunities to race (that's why I also suggested to slow down clubs even more)
I also see that my suggestion would have to be considered carefully. If adding prize boards to clubs encourages players to smurf in clubs, this would undermine the team-competition aspect of clubs. So maybe this is the reason why we cannot have prize boards in clubs?? If this is a concern Hutch shares, we would be in a tough spot: By adding more racing opportunities Hutch created an additional source of income and every rebalancing of prizes between Club, Daily, other events and the challenge to sort of equalies pre and post 9.0 rewards will always **** off some people, because (a) it means that prizes for some strategies are lowerd and/or (b) you have to grind harder for the same revenue.
There are two ways out of this dilemma:
(1) Hutch accepts, that by increasing the car pool (which is a deflation of cash/gold), an inflation of prizes is not a bad thing.
(2) We accept, that the game has changed and we either adapt our strategies, lower our expectations or leave.
I also want to point out, that i do not agree that putting out a lot of CF packs is inflating anything. You could always buy as many CF packs as you liked. Putting out some special packs might encourage some players to spend, but it will not change by much.
Basically Tim even said that in his posting on Page 3:
"Interestingly, our analysis finds that, on average, having these more regular CF offers convinces slightly more players to spend for the first time, rather than to convince existing spenders to spend more."
Yet I read the "CF packs inflate the economy, what do you do about that???"-argument up and down the road. Comparing both types of assumed inflations makes no sense to me. Don't we all want a healthy game that then generates a good income for the developers? (Of course we can argue about what a healthy game might look like, but I kind of miss the respect in the discussion).
The new economy has come about because it seems it necessary to withdraw some of the income due to the added revenue stream of clubs. The reason being because clubs has unlimited tickets.
what if we change to a system where you get a certain number of tickets you can choose to do with them as you wish, either you play clubs or you play regular events.
That way prize boards can be brought back to regular levels for events, and even introduced for clubs. players get to choose and play the part of the game that they enjoy the most, and Hutch doesn't need to give out any extra money and doesn't need to do any math to balance the economy at all
I like this idea that you have a certain amount of tickets which you can choose to devide over the events and every X-time you get another ticket (like the system works now). Then you can choose on which you want to spend more tickets.
Yet I read the "CF packs inflate the economy, what do you do about that???"-argument up and down the road. Comparing both types of assumed inflations makes no sense to me. Don't we all want a healthy game that then generates a good income for the developers? (Of course we can argue about what a healthy game might look like, but I kind of miss the respect in the discussion).
IMO there’s a key difference between regular, always-on CFs and the 15x offers: the 15x offers are specifically designed to win you a top flight prize car. I have never and would never buy 15 regular CFs, but I have bought prize cars via the 15x packs before.
Sadly we seem to have got to a stage where the ONLY way to win a top flight prize car is to buy all the packs. That is what is driving inflation IMO.
I don’t see a game where 100 wealthy people hoover* up all the best cars while those of us that won’t spend £10k+ on a buggy app game fight over the scraps as healthy.
i dont even want to waste my time commenting on here, the game just feels weird, income is greatly lower, before the prizeboard nerf i used to make 100k daily, but now barely 20-30k, so i dont really understand where you got your point that people are making more income now, but i can only say that its wrong
@BoxtaS I don't want to speculate and argue about the 15 CF Packs and their influence on winning a prize car, since I lack the experience. However, the subjective opinions on several matters regarding the economy have been proofen wrong by data, which is what we all should consider.
@Huskic69 It is just logical, that your income decreases if you dont change your strategies...
Comments
1) Your statistics may say one thing, but my feeling of the game is that I’m cash poor. Just maxing a Super Rare feels like a big hit to my bank account compared to before the change.
2) I used to be able to open ceramics on a fairly regular basis. I haven’t bought a single one in over a week now, because I’m worried about my cash balance.
3) I’ve tried to play clubs, but it’s just a grind that isn’t fun. Smurfing was a grind, but I could do it quickly and move on. Clubs just feel like a huge time-sink with minimal rewards .... and you’re talking about decreasing those.
4) I understand that adding Commons to the prize board was requested by some users (Not a fan of it), but I think too many were added. It now feels as though every other card on a prize board is an F or E, which sell for paltry sums of money. I’d rather go back to buying common packs only when I need them.
Even if you are completely correct, and players are on average making more cash than before, the perception is that we are not. In keeping customers happy, perception is more important.
P.S. If you want to, feel free to publicly release my stats on income history.
TL;DR - I dislike clubs and feel poor.
Edit: correction, a ceramic AND a B car.
Now we get a premium pack with lower drop rates
what if we change to a system where you get a certain number of tickets you can choose to do with them as you wish, either you play clubs or you play regular events.
That way prize boards can be brought back to regular levels for events, and even introduced for clubs. players get to choose and play the part of the game that they enjoy the most, and Hutch doesn't need to give out any extra money and doesn't need to do any math to balance the economy at all
This is just not right.
Clubs:
Add tickets to clubs
Max 10 tickets with 15 min refresh time
Add prize boards as they are now to club events
Events:
Remove dailies (oh i will get punched for that)
Put "old" prize board to events.
This solution will move the attention from dailies to clubs (hutch wanted that in the first place). With the lower prize boards clubs have a instant return (I'm missing that right now). The low prize boards with 10 tickets to play are a good compromise from my point of view.
Normal events will still have the good old prize boards and actually playing them makes sense (instead of late joining)
Why remove dailies though? We just went through that whole debacle of removing something that players wanted. It is the easiest way to farm some cash from the game when you don't have that much time during the day.
The bottom line is, nothing should be removed from the game unless the majority of players want it gone. 93% of those polled wanted the daily in.
Clubs needs work, not dailies.
I believe it’s clear we’d still like the value of the prize boards restored. I, like most, only play clubs because we need to make up the cash difference so still a job in that respect, and in that way that’s the crucial difference with smarfing.
Lower expectations.
Inflation.
IN-FLA-TION
There is currently 1 CF available to winners, which will be top 2 / 100 for the Lotus Event.
What were you saying about Inflation?
I like this idea that you have a certain amount of tickets which you can choose to devide over the events and every X-time you get another ticket (like the system works now). Then you can choose on which you want to spend more tickets.
Sadly we seem to have got to a stage where the ONLY way to win a top flight prize car is to buy all the packs. That is what is driving inflation IMO.
I don’t see a game where 100 wealthy people hoover* up all the best cars while those of us that won’t spend £10k+ on a buggy app game fight over the scraps as healthy.
* other vacuum cleaners are available
@Huskic69 It is just logical, that your income decreases if you dont change your strategies...