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Club Events Season 2 Balance Update



  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was just gonna ask about playing on bluestacks. 

    Has anyone worked it out yet? If it isn't possible, I'll not be able to play regardless. It's only by the clandestine nature of hiding behind a laptop while pulling a good concentration face that I can even play during the day hours. 

    Daily had no such problems... RIP
  • Parimal_2000Parimal_2000 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭✭
    Hutch can fix this by bringing prize boards in clubs. The real question is will they?
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch can fix this by bringing prize boards in clubs. The real question is will they?
    They wont.. They want you to use gold for their x2 doubler. 
  • TNThomasTNThomas Posts: 619 ✭✭✭✭
    I am a daily player and haven’t even joined Club Events after reading all the negativity here. Now that Dailies are gone, unfortunately, I want to join Club Events... But I am thinking about quitting Top Drives if I end up disliking Club Events.

    What club do the forum users join on iOS? Legacy?
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From daily income to weekly income... seems a work and not a game and for what? Poor rewards if you race 5 times or 500 times... we will see decrease player base ... but hey, it's cool, you need 6 month for an update and you don't fix bugs or errors cards but kill the game!!! 😂😂😂
  • LorskyLorsky Posts: 77 ✭✭✭
    I can understand, I understand the DAILY EVENT canceling is making  way to the new CLUB EVENT, that could make all the players focus on the new event. So, I understand.

    BUT ! ! !     I DO NOT ACCEPT IT !

    I don't think canceling the DAILY will make this game better. I don't think DAILY and CLUB conflict with each other. If HUTCH thinks the CLUB is enough to completely replace DAILY, I do not think so, at least it does not yet.  The problem is the CLUB award is not good as well as the DAILY did, because after we won one game in DAILY, we can get awards like cash, gold, or cars. And what about the CLUB does? We take a long time on the CLUB evnet and finally get around 2000 cash (boosted)? Honestly that is enough, it means players can spend more time on CLUB to make more cash, and I did. Anyway that is the benifit of the CLUB event, and now I am goning to talk about the defect. I spent more than 3 hours on the CLUB to make cash, and the absurd point is 70% (or more) of my battles I were fight with HUTCH bots... At the begining I think the CLUB matches were easy coz we just fought with the bots and won easily, and now actually I start getting bored on it, I even doubt HUTCH was showing their staffs by this way...(btw, Lara is a nice girl XD) at least I saw many staffs who never appeared on the DAILY events.

    So, IMO the DAILY event should not be canceled, it could be saved with the CLUB and they will make this game better. I wish HUTCH could return the DAILY and improve the CLUB step by step until the players think it is good enough to replace the DAILY.
  • NemezNemez Posts: 186 ✭✭✭
    Hmm so it will become quite more time consuming to get access to common cars as the only way to acquire them is by smurfing 2-3 days long events. 
  • 43MK443MK4 Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nemez said:
    Hmm so it will become quite more time consuming to get access to common cars as the only way to acquire them is by smurfing 2-3 days long events. 

    Only way? you can buy packs for 3250 IG cash.
  • malsmals Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    Sorry hutch, but i had to change my 5* in app store to 1*. if you dont listen to the community...
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After some thoughts - Im okay with clubs replacing dailies, but we need:
    1) MVP for 10 wins at least, not 30.   People with 30 wins for me = ZERO IQ. (including myself)  The only possible and adequate way of getting so much wins is if opposite players race you and lose.  But one player racing 30 times seems ridiculous to me.  
    2) Less players in events. 5 vs 5 might be interesting, 75 vs 75 NOT
    3) Cash flow might be okay, but we need E/D cars flow at the same rate. 
    4) Club rewards every day not once a week and probably with same structure as in dailies, we need our ceramic/aluminiums on everyday basis. 
    5) Less events with x3 smth x2 smth,  its so annoying to choose hand everytime. let it be just x5 smth. 
    6) Maybe you can add track conditions in event screen? Like 5 small icons telling "rain , rain, dirt, dirt, dry". , "dry, dry, dry, rain, rain".   Because its so annoying to discover it myself and get back to point 5. super annoying.  
  • TopDivesTopDives Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭
    sinner said:
    Being able to open a couple of ceramics a day was the best bit. It was the most fun to be had in the game. All they've done is taken away the main enjoyment element of the game for me. I picked up this morning played one club match and switched it off. Haven't even bothered with the main game. What a shame hutch don't realise this .
    Nah, what Hutch don't realise is that most of the players on here have been supporting the game since day 1. These same players made the game better, they were invested in it, they found bugs... lots of bugs. And to come about telling us a bunch of excuses ... for crying out loud, I can't even play the new club mode, i have work and family. I have to be glued on my phone to cope with battles. Geez, that is not better. Give me the choice to play my tickets like before in daily events and do whatever you want with clubs. Social aspect? Wow, hey let's coop to take over that territory 55.

    Man, i'm just disappointed more than anything. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh no! I just realised! With dailies gone, that means no more daily steel / plastic, which means no more inflow of COMMON CARS!!!!
    Means we will have to buy plastics!!!! This is just too much. No way I am buying 100 plastics to find the interesting common cars...
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Posts: 685 admin
    Wow, this sure is a spicy thread! I go on holiday for a couple of weeks and look what happens.

    The good news is it looks like everyone here wants largely the same things:
    1) Smarfers can continue to make their cash/gold without putting in a lot more time
    2) F2P'ers / less engaged players don't get put off
    3) The game should be as fun as we can make it

    My take on each of those:

    1) Smarfers make their money
    We're making sure Clubs is balanced to give similar rewards to the Daily.

    I've been Smarfing the daily myself for a long time now. When I'm too busy to play TD much (like going on holiday) it's all I do (and the challenge, obviously).  From my own play of Clubs so far, it looks like I'll be getting very similar cash and about 500 gold/week instead of 350 gold/week. One of the issues with the calculations I've seen people make is they are comparing a highly evolved understanding of how to smarf the daily optimally with a first guess at how to make the most of Club Events.

    In any case, we'll be seeing how people play Club events over time and adjusting with this balance in mind. Season 2 is the first go at that.

    2) F2P'ers / less engaged players don't get put off
    It's awesome that a lot of you are concerned about this. We certainly are too! One aspect that's being overlooked here I think is that a lot of players don't figure out smarfing. (Or they do, but do it wrong - as per the 'Bad Smurfers' thread).

    What % of your races in the daily are 3-star, if you exclude races where you quit? Probably 90%-100%, right? For the average RQ125-149 player it's 25%. For RQ150 players with <6k trophies it's 33%. If you split out from those the players that have figured out smarfing, that's actually a huge amount of players who are scraping by with perhaps a 50% win rate in the daily getting 1 star for each win.

    One big advantage of club events is it's much more obvious how you can make more money. Again though, we'll see how those players are playing Club events over time to see how balanced it really is.

    3) The Game should be as fun as we can make it.
    Periodically there are posts about how ridiculous it is that you spend most of your time in Top Drives deliberately losing and playing with terrible cars just to farm, so you can be equipped for the few events you stand a chance at. These I think were fair criticism. Smarfing wasn't the intended design.

    If we can get point (1) right, you now make that money by trying to win races, making use of your varied garage. That's certainly a bit harder than just whipping out 5x MX-5 BBR Turbos to make 3 stars from someone with 5x Beat in the 5x JP daily, but really should be more fun. I think it is so far! I've got to use my common garage I haven't touched in a while and got to bring out my Porsche Dakar just now, which was great! We'll continue to tweak how Clubs work, and as has been pointed out there is a lot we could build on from here that we never could with the daily. 

    Opening packs is fun too, yep. Again, if we can get point (1) working, there should be just as much pack opening.

    Not having as big a source of D cars, and even E and F is an interesting point. That does a few things to how easy it is to collect and upgrade cars of different rarity tiers. We might be able to bring some of that back by changing regular prize boards, or by other means. That's certainly something to think about.

    Why get rid of daily's, though?
    Smarfing wasn't the intended design, dailies were boring; if we add something that creates a more interesting way to make the same money but didn't take dailys away, we haven't fixed the problem, we've just created another thing you have to spend time on to be competitive!

    I think most importantly, the biggest challenge has already been raised multiple times in this thread - people only have so much time (except for Russian teenagers apparently). People have been calling out for a new mode of some sort for a long time, and I think there's still demand for more modes (more Campaign is always being asked for) - but if we just keep adding new modes with new earning potential, then we're just extending how much time you 'have' to play the game for each day, and also creating inflation within the game. We have to be really careful with that.

    You may notice from the structure of the Club Event rewards that technically you get best value for your time if you do one race per event. You can get more rewards for more races, but the returns diminish. This means people who can play twice as long in a day don't make twice as much money. That's the standard way f2p games balance out the fact that different people have radically different amounts of time to play in a day. Again, it's also something we can tweak over time if we don't think the balance is right.
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the all game is in BETA!!! tell us how many players are active in the first week of may and in the first week of june!! then, maybe, we will see some changes!!
  • DannyDanny Posts: 623 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    If giving the players too many resources is your issue hutch then why can’t the daily still be around but only reward cars and cash from the prize board whilst clubs revolves solely around gold? Eg 10 gold for a event win and only gold awarded at the end of a season? That way everybody’s happy? Players can still farm the daily for cash and cars and clubs offers something different to help us build up our gold stores?
    Post edited by Danny on
  • sinnersinner Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TimBut said:
    also - removing daily motivates us to smurf in usual events.  What about that? 

    Actually only last week I decided to stop smurfing in ceramic events and start playing for t1 from the start.  Now I have to go smurfing again. 

    Was just thinking this 
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    Hutch_Robin said:

    I've spoken about this before. Here are ten of our reasons:
    - Players wanted more ways to play Top Drives, rather than the limited ticket system. Club Events especially serves time rich players.
    - Players wanted shorter, quickfire events
    - Players wanted more variety in events, in terms of track sets and restrictions, and we needed a way to scale this. Similarly, players just wanted to use more of their garages. Players complained about the lack of variety (and other issues) in Daily Events a lot.
    - Players liked the idea of choice in which events they joined. It potentially allows players to specialise their garage more effectively.
    - Daily Events were not just too similar but players played against the same players so often. We wanted to try a social feature where lots of different players could encounter one another outside of the forums.
    - The losing to win farming strategy was not particular fun, but felt necessary. Ultimately, it wasn't good for the game
    - We wanted to find a way to introduce less timezone sensitive events
    - I had seen the territory mechanic in other games and it was compelling
    - We observed players enjoying working together in events, and wanted to introduce light cooperation in events so that that experience was available to more users
    - We wanted to introduce something fresh. Perhaps a trial for player created clubs in the future. Players had also requested us doing something in the club space. This was a way to have a simple implementation of clubs, without too much infrastructure around setting up and maintaining a club, allowing us to focus on a twist on the standard event gameplay. Club Events is also a new framework to build on.

    For one, despite my previous posts, I like(d) clubs. It was good little time waster in-between tickets, jump on see where I can make a difference. A bit manic, prizes were rubbish, but that didn’t matter because we had daily events. My my, saw that riot coming.

    1.”The losing to win farming strategy was not particular fun, but felt necessary. Ultimately, it wasn't good for the game”

    Does anyone care that it wasn’t fun? It had a function and that was to make money. My day job isn’t fun, do I care as long as I get paid? No. Is working integral to my life? Yes. Is daily event integral to TD? YES! Do you see the commonality? For 20-30mins of actual play it makes a hell of a difference especially if you can’t devote unlimited free time to a game. Having said all that I do enjoy smurfing and turning over prize boards and it’s not as boring as sitting out the first 24hours of every event.

    How can you reason that smurfing was not good for the game? You have a passionate group of players dedicated to the craft, you actually help create a gaming sub-culture where players actually cooperate and enjoyed working together. It had it’s own norms and customs, it’s own colloquialisms, it’s own in-jokes. It was a living breathing organism. How is that not good for the game? Any game? 

    And team work, there’s no greater and closer cooperation between players than smurfing, people working towards a common good. I’ve made great team mates through smurfing, so by axing daily you’ve basically destroyed what you sought to create. 

    And you killed it, for what? Cheeseburger team play you call clubs? You know what erks me!? Smoochers

    People who live off the hard work of others. How is that team play?

    All along the border sectors were vulnerable weak points that needed reinforcing. You’d expect people to do the right thing and shore up the defence or make a brave attack on enemy territory. Instead you get 100 players hitting a safe sector that’s cut off from the opponents HQ so they can grab easy cash. Thanks a million, I enjoyed 2 vs 20, holding an un-winnable sector. And what about the end rewards. Someone plays 2 short sessions and gets 300+ gold, while I bust my chops and dodging the wife to get 600. Rubbish. I made 100 times the effort, I should be reward 100 times the gold. And you know what’s worse than smoochers, players with **** hands letting down the team. Come back when you got a maxed hellcat! Can’t win with a team and can’t win without them. Does that sound like fun or stress?

    Oh daily is bad for newly minted 150rqs you say? Well you’ve been giving them bad advice, you should tell them to smurf. Changed my game around, I am still playing because of dailies. It made me competitive in most cases where I wouldn’t have been. I’ve won prize cars because I worked for it in the dailies. Tell them to smurf and they’ll do alright. At least they can open a ceramic or 2 everyday and try their luck. Clubs, the end reward cash couldn’t even buy me 1 ceramic. Pathetic.

    2.”We wanted to find a way to introduce less timezone sensitive events”

    Great. Execution - FAIL. At the end of the day you only have to play the last day or so. Sectors change hands that quickly and often it doesnt make a difference the first 5 days. As long as the club pushes at the right time you can get where you need to be. That also mean people are burnt out by the end of play. Did anyone care past the first couple of days? Sectors were definitely not filling to the brim.

    And it is still Timezone sensitive. The end time is still the same bad end time as it is for every other event. I woke up and I couldn’t play anymore, so whatever happens overnight I can’t control.

    This is my honest advice, bring back dailies before you lose your f2p player base. As optimistic as you think you are, once players hit that pay wall and realise clubs won’t give them the resources to compete they’ll quit as I’m seriously considering. And as much as you think you can do without the f2ps, you really can’t. 
    This sums up the current state of player experience pretty well.
  • KarhgathKarhgath Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Hutch_Tim said:

    Not having as big a source of D cars, and even E and F is an interesting point. That does a few things to how easy it is to collect and upgrade cars of different rarity tiers. We might be able to bring some of that back by changing regular prize boards, or by other means. That's certainly something to think about.

    Good to have your informed and balanced thoughts on the topic.
    Assuming you manage to get rewards right, the following is the most important and URGENT point in my mind:

    ”Not having as big a source of D cars, and even E and F is an interesting point. That does a few things to how easy it is to collect and upgrade cars of different rarity tiers. We might be able to bring some of that back by changing regular prize boards, or by other means. That's certainly something to think about.”

    Right now the whole balance of garage build up is handicaped severely, this will lead to less ability to gather and upgrade cars, prompting people to give up on some events and be less engaged. If I cant upgrade C/D/E/F cars easily (ie I need to go actively buy **** steel/plastic packs) I will probably give up on playing an event competitively, just play 5 tickets once a day or something.
    No way I could bring myself to buy platic/steel/alu when that same igc can be used to buy a ceramic, ie a chance, even if small, to get a legendary.

    100% this!

    This affects the whole game balance - the only way to progress in Challenges is to get money and D/E cars for fusing. Since the challenges are so specialized, I would guess only a very very small % of players have the adequate cars already.

    Case in point, I was progressing super well in the current challenges, nearly through the Lancia challenges... and this hits. Now I am stuck, I have no way to progress - I need to farm the normal challenges, but people are less dedicated to smurfing there. I get 1-2 D food, that I add to my garage to fuse, then I need to sell thing from my actual garage to upgrade.

    This is bad.

    And I play the club. I played 30+ minutes on one single event, spamming races against hutch bot in a battle that was a landslide win already - but now the events last 2x times longer, so even less rewards. Result of 30+ minutes of spamming, finished MVP, platinum participation - 5800 cash. That is about 2x upgrades... but still no D/E food, so need to sacrifice actual cars in my garage to fuse for challenges.

    I think I will try to get the ceramic pack in the challenge and throw the towel - I cannot start killing my whole garage just to finish challenges now. It was already hard to get through many challenges, now the cost is just way too high.

    I am not a competitive guy. I like events because it allows me to craft a good hand/strategy, do good matching, but the competition part is not very high for me. Challenges was what I loved about the game. Club is not a replacement of challenges, but would need to be.

    Couple of suggestions:
    - Give more free D/E/F daily upgrades in club events, with high max per day
    - The boards for challenges should ONLY give D/E food
    - Increase each cash rewards for challenges sets by a 

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