Maybe the resolver shouldn't run every car on every track against every other car.
Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
The general feeling is that the RQ advantage of Slicks is too great.
If you're new to the RQ system, RQ of specialists in Top Drives are lower than generalists of similar performance, because cars are rated by their performance across of challenges on lots of surfaces. It creates an interesting, bumpy distribution with lots of variance in the kind of cars in different RQ and Rarity tiers. However, sometimes cars are so low that they are not particularly strategically interesting. Slick tyre cars, which are only good on dry asphalt, are a big example of underrated cars.
In the next rebalance we could address this - I'd be looking to increase some Slick Tyre cars' RQ by 1 or 2, depending on where the car falls in the rankings (if it is the best car in its RQ band, it'd be more likely to go up 2 RQ than if it was the worst car in its RQ band).
Nice to see that that you are still alive and have the "time" to adress this new topic. But to be honest, it kind of feels like another slap in the face. Look at all the problems we are mentioning daily that are getting ignored, which are much bigger than this.
My opinion is, that you wouldn't need to "nerf" these slick tyre cars, if you would make "interesting/balanced" track restricitons. For starters try that one time and then we can go back and discuss a "rebalance".
Off Topic rant:
I'm sick of getting half baked answers, cheap excusses and Hutch always focusing on lesser important problems. You mess up week after week and half of the time you don't even respond to it ("wE gOt No CoMmUnItY mAnAgEr"). But if you manage to give us an answer after days of waiting, there are some people here that praise and thank you for finally giving us a cheap excuse and it seems they instantly forget everything bad that had happened and have gathered some hope again. Just to get disappointed again.
Rinse and repeat, that's all I'm seeing here for weeks.
Just saying, we still got no compensation for the latest (and second) messed up Finals. Wait I'm sorry, I got blamed from support for it, that I did get. I won't forget that like others.
Instead of manually adjusting "op" cars why not increase the RQ limit and maybe these cars would find a better home if the range for legendaries was wider. Say 35-40rq for legendaries. An increase in RQ is well overdue. Since it's gone from 25rq to 30rq I'm sure double the amount of cars have been added. Of course balancing issues are going to occur when the range for legendaries is still only 3rq but the amount of them is double
We have waaaaay more marques in the game since the last RQ limit rise. So when we look at any RQ number, we can regularly see glaring differences with 2 cars.
Where you think, "Why is car A not less than car B in RQ?"
Just an off topic question,. When they said test on all tracks, do they test in all the 10-15 drag races? That wont be really fair tbh. So the drag specialists would go on to a higher rq than they are supposed to?
Just an off topic question,. When they said test on all tracks, do they test in all the 10-15 drag races? That wont be really fair tbh. So the drag specialists would go on to a higher rq than they are supposed to?
They don’t test on all tracks to determine cars RQ. They have a representative set of tracks they use. How “representative” it is is another question.
Just an off topic question,. When they said test on all tracks, do they test in all the 10-15 drag races? That wont be really fair tbh. So the drag specialists would go on to a higher rq than they are supposed to?
They don’t test on all tracks to determine cars RQ. They have a representative set of tracks they use. How “representative” it is is another question.
This is key. It seems intuitively that the resolver should be using a weighted sample of the tracks actually used in events.
As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires.
The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.
by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2.
Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible.
I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are.
As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires.
The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.
by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2.
Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible.
I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are.
For me, this is just another manifestation of the excess of specialist CF packs on offer. For all of us who have played this game for a long time, there have always been unicorns. I have a pretty sizeable garage, but there are still loads of important cars that elude me: the Superlight, any RQ26 Evo, the yellow Megane, and so forth. We used to accept this, and it was part of playing the game that we opened Ceramic packs, and the odd CF, in hope of finding them.
Now, every event comes with a slew of very niche CF packs that enable someone with a deep wallet to greatly increase their chances of pulling one or more of each of these essential cars. Ridiculously specific offers (15x RWD 2000s Convertibles CF packs and so forth) are killing this game for the rest of us, and allowing people to pick up slick-tyred cars like the 917, 962C and Megane because they have real money to burn.
I agree that a broad RQ review is needed, and that as part of that slick-tyred cars might well be adjusted. I think that the bigger problem is that niche CF overkill needs to be addressed.
And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders.
And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders.
I sort of agree that prize cars should allowed to be used, because they are basically only gathering dust but that would cause more problems. It would maybe shorten the gap between "competitive" f2p players against whales but it would also increse the gap between "competitive" and non "competitive" f2p players.
This would only further boost players that are already good enough to win prize cars "from time to time" and limit players, that are fighting for their life to win their first one.
The suckiest thing about the prize car ban is that competitive f2p/p2p players can’t afford to upgrade them and they become kind of useless. I have most and nearly all are stock. Camaro, Evo, both Pikes, Citroen and more - all great cars but all stock because I need to save food to win more prize cars to gather more dust. It’s an odd circle to be stuck in
As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires.
The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.
by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2.
Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible.
I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are.
Honestly performance tires aren’t that much better on anything other than dry asphalt. How likely is it that someone should pair up performance tires against slicks on snow twisty road?
Maybe it’s not the case of adding rq to balance slicks but reducing rq on other cars so that they’re more competitive rq wise. A lot of under-used rq27 legendaries that probably be a lot more useful as epics anyway.
And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders.
I sort of agree that prize cars should allowed to be used, because they are basically only gathering dust but that would cause more problems. It would maybe shorten the gap between "competitive" f2p players against whales but it would also increse the gap between "competitive" and non "competitive" f2p players.
This would only further boost players that are already good enough to win prize cars "from time to time" and limit players, that are fighting for their life to win their first one.
I did say it was controversial! I disagree that it would cause more problems, I think it would just shift the problem to a smaller group. Not ideal, I know, but right now the situation is even worse.
As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires.
The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.
by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2.
Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible.
I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are.
I can see a proud slick tire car owner.
I’ve only got a few, but when they do get used, they save me a lot of hassle. I’d rather not lump them up with every other car by increasing their RQ. Do you catch my drift here?
You're talking about Standard City street & Santa Monica versus every other track.
Against the way slicks are better value RQ on EVERY dry asphalt track. Hardly a comparison.
That's like saying we should bump up the RQ of Caterhams because theyre slalom specialists.
That's how the RQ system works though. Medium height cars gets higher RQ than low cars not because they're generally faster, but because low cars have the disadvantage on some tracks. For the same reason a normal tire car with the same stats as a perf tyre car will have higher RQ, even though they perform equal on dry tarmac. It's clear that slicks, following the same logic, should have lower RQ than a perf tyre car with equal performance, as it has more limited use.
You can discuss how much more RQ value a slick car should give vs. a perf tyre car, but removing the advantage entirely would make slicks pointless. It would make slicks the least favourable option, while it in reality IS the best choice for dry asphalt. All I'm saying is that the game should still reflect that.
I don't have a ton of great slick cars, but I think slicks should continue to be the best choice of tyres on dry asphalt nevertheless.
I'm not entirely opposed to RQ re balancing of slicks - I agree with arguments on boths sides here, so kind of sitting on the fence.
Having said that, I own a partially upgraded RQ29 Porsche GT2 RS and its kind of in no mans land when it comes to Porsche events, not good enough against slick cars on dry and not good enough against the 4WD porches on wet (apart from drags). Still a great car but if I had a slick tyre Porsche, that's the car I would be upgrading - I guess that in itself tells a story.
One thing I'm against however is when cars move into another RQ tier - particularly UR to Epic and Epic to Legendary - as this makes it incredibly unfair on those that missed out prior to RQ change.
I think the thing for me is that, at the moment virtually every car is graded on the same terms. Low height cars tend to have lower RQs because they can't cope with bumps. Performance tire cars tend to have lower RQs because they can't handle rain. It makes sense within this system that slicks have lower RQs because they can't handle anything but asphalt.
Hutch fairly recently changed a lot of the off-road tired cars and drag cars to have artificially higher RQs which has led to its own problems... Now we have the Datsun, Suzuki and Fiat all on RQ18 when the Datsun is just miles better than the other two on anything except bumps. We also have the Escort and Silvia both on RQ22 when the Escort beats the Silvia on practically everything and the Porsche Rally sits 1RQ below simply because it is low! Consistency would say the Porsche Rally which beats the other two on anything except bumps should be RQ22 to match the situation with the RQ18 cars.
If we look at cars like the El Camino which also has an artificial RQ, it hasn't made a shred of difference. It's no longer the go-to Rare drag car, it is now the go-to low RQ Super Rare drag car. And in Rare, it has been replaced by the prize car Pontiac that everyone has at least one of. There has effectively been no change.
The RQ30 Audis (before they were nerfed) all held significant advantages over other cars due to being easier to collect and easier and cheaper to upgrade. This meant that people prioritised upgrading them over other cars and the people who had them held a significant advantage. This is not unfair. This is the way the game works. There are good cars and there are better cars in every RQ level.
I feel there are just too many variables and consistencies that would need to be adhered to in changing slick tired cars to have artificial RQs. I think it's easier to leave cars where the system determines them to be and let people who are lucky enough to have pulled and upgraded them have the advantage of them.
I would even be supportive of the idea of resetting everything – put the El Camino back, put the off-road cars back, make all of the Epics that sit above RQ26 into either Legendaries or RQ26 Epics. Make the system easy to understand and – even more so – make it consistent.
Honestly performance tires aren’t that much better on anything other than dry asphalt. How likely is it that someone should pair up performance tires against slicks on snow twisty road?
Maybe it’s not the case of adding rq to balance slicks but reducing rq on other cars so that they’re more competitive rq wise. A lot of under-used rq27 legendaries that probably be a lot more useful as epics anyway.
I think you're right here. Since performance tires are not very good in rain, there is not much use for them on anything but dry asphalt which makes them like a poor-man's slicks. Even 4WD performance tires were fairly recently nerfed and maybe that was wrong.
I think there is a very good case here not for nerfing slicks, but to actually move more quickly ahead with an RQ system overhaul, changing the RQ limit not to 35 but to something higher like 40 or even 50. This way, the differences between cars at the top of the RQ range will be exposed. That way a Bugatti Chiron at RQ50 wouldn't be directly compared with an RQ46 Porsche GT2 RS. Or cars like the two Rare Escort rally cars would be one or two RQ apart, creating a reason for the lesser one's existence in the game.
I'm all for some drastic changes to reshape the game for the better but as these two posts show, I don't think slicks are the problem.
Some very valid and well-thought out posts above, previous 4-5 comments.
I think there are a few factors which lead to the (in particular) Legend Porsche Slick's being ''OP''
Well, slicks in general, are very very few and far between. The chance of pulling one of those from even a Porsche CF is so so low, you have to be very lucky to own one. (However, I did see a guy in the daily with 3 maxed 962c's, so there's that y'know...)
Would the game benefit or suffer from more Slicks being available? And by being available, I mean slicks you can pull in packs, not Slicks which just get slapped behind a Prize Car barrier.
I would also like to point out, that given the finale of the Moby Dick, I might finally be able to add a Slick Legend to my garage. This has been such a long campaign from myself, and many other veterans of the game. The structure I can get behind, giving out a really fantastic car to people who have completed lots of challenges, rather than making it the top 1% in a PVP Finale.
Another point is, that the vast vast majority of events-that-matter are dry asphalt. This will only play into the hands of Slick's even more.
Personally, I would welcome more SR and UR Slicks. Before the TCR and Trans-Am become unicorns.
I’d forgotten that the Moby Dick was on slicks. I think I was too busy focussing on the sheer volume of smutty jokes that will be possible once that car has been awarded.
I’d forgotten that the Moby Dick was on slicks. I think I was too busy focussing on the sheer volume of smutty jokes that will be possible once that car has been awarded.
What are you talking about? I personally can’t wait to get that slick-dick in my garage
I’d forgotten that the Moby Dick was on slicks. I think I was too busy focussing on the sheer volume of smutty jokes that will be possible once that car has been awarded.
What are you talking about? I personally can’t wait to get that slick-dick in my garage
If Hutch have a Porsche event immediately afterwards and call it “Get Your Dicks Out” I will forgive most of the stuff about the game that otherwise annoys me.
And can you explain the rq resolver in a bit more detail. Afaik it's a static manual selection of tracks correct? Why is it not a weighted average of the actual tracks you've used over the last 3-6 months. Would you be prepared to share the tracks that are used by the resolver?
Maybe the resolver shouldn't run every car on every track against every other car.
Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
Yes, it is a static manual selection of tracks. I originally wondered if it had too high an emphasis on drags, as it feels like there are more drag specialists emerging in Top Drives, but I now think that's just a by-product of drag specialists being more common in real life. The fact that twisty specialists also emerge from this RQ-generating system (the Beat, the MX-5 BBR Turbo) makes me think it's okay in that balance.
We tested out removing the more extreme drags used to determine RQ (so that cars with a lower Top Speed, e.g. the DeZir, would rank higher on average), but it made barely any difference to RQs generated, so I don't think the exact distribution is too crucial to it working. I also suspect track-type biases over 3-6 months would largely average out, although I guess we could do an audit of some sort to check!
To Blue2moro's point, that's sort-of how it works, actually! We rank each car on it's performance on Dry asphalt tracks, Wet Asphalt, and Off-road. Whichever out of those 3 it ranks highest in we consider its "primary" stat, the one it comes second in is the "secondary". We then take a weighted average of the ranks, giving most weight to the primary stat, a bit of weight to the secondary, and a tiny bit to the third.
When it comes to playing the game, obviously in practice you pick the cars most suitable for the tracks available, and this system effectively rewards you for picking more specialist cars, which feels right. We certainly wouldn't want to remove the advantage of Slicks entirely, the question is only if the balance needs to be adjusted slightly. Since all cars have an exact rank (not just an RQ), it could be as little as bumping it up by (effectively) 0.5 of an RQ, so those at the top end of a given RQ band go up, and those at the bottom don't. (Also as noted, avoiding any changes between A and S). We could alternatively reduce the weight of the secondary stat and that would presumably have a similar effect.
Overall though, it's seeming from this thread that people aren't too keen on a change though?
(Also yes, as people have noted, and as I've said elsewhere, there are probably too many cars at each RQ now, so we should consider scaling the range up again, like we did in December 2017).
And can you explain the rq resolver in a bit more detail. Afaik it's a static manual selection of tracks correct? Why is it not a weighted average of the actual tracks you've used over the last 3-6 months. Would you be prepared to share the tracks that are used by the resolver?
Maybe the resolver shouldn't run every car on every track against every other car.
Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
Yes, it is a static manual selection of tracks. I originally wondered if it had too high an emphasis on drags, as it feels like there are more drag specialists emerging in Top Drives, but I now think that's just a by-product of drag specialists being more common in real life. The fact that twisty specialists also emerge from this RQ-generating system (the Beat, the MX-5 BBR Turbo) makes me think it's okay in that balance.
We tested out removing the more extreme drags used to determine RQ (so that cars with a lower Top Speed, e.g. the DeZir, would rank higher on average), but it made barely any difference to RQs generated, so I don't think the exact distribution is too crucial to it working. I also suspect track-type biases over 3-6 months would largely average out, although I guess we could do an audit of some sort to check!
To Blue2moro's point, that's sort-of how it works, actually! We rank each car on it's performance on Dry asphalt tracks, Wet Asphalt, and Off-road. Whichever out of those 3 it ranks highest in we consider its "primary" stat, the one it comes second in is the "secondary". We then take a weighted average of the ranks, giving most weight to the primary stat, a bit of weight to the secondary, and a tiny bit to the third.
When it comes to playing the game, obviously in practice you pick the cars most suitable for the tracks available, and this system effectively rewards you for picking more specialist cars, which feels right. We certainly wouldn't want to remove the advantage of Slicks entirely, the question is only if the balance needs to be adjusted slightly. Since all cars have an exact rank (not just an RQ), it could be as little as bumping it up by (effectively) 0.5 of an RQ, so those at the top end of a given RQ band go up, and those at the bottom don't. (Also as noted, avoiding any changes between A and S). We could alternatively reduce the weight of the secondary stat and that would presumably have a similar effect.
Overall though, it's seeming from this thread that people aren't too keen on a change though?
(Also yes, as people have noted, and as I've said elsewhere, there are probably too many cars at each RQ now, so we should consider scaling the range up again, like we did in December 2017).
Increasing the RQ range is a good idea in my opinion. As aforementioned, there are cars that are the same RQ level that have significant differences in performance. But with an RQ range increase comes the need for a higher player RQ level as well. My question is how would progression resume? It's safe to assume that a majority of players on the forum here are already RQ150. Would XP just be added to prize boards? With such an emphasis on clubs and the recent changes to the prizeboards, I'm not sure just replacing something on the board with XP would be the best idea...just my two cents anyway
selfish owners ofc don't want it, but raising rq for slick cars is a right thing to do. No one cares how slick tyres do on snow tracks. We use them only on dry asphalt where they compete with perfomance tyres. And there 30rq cars are losing to 27rq cars. Well, that's not a big deal, but, because of the RQ penalty you can even use 2 slick Tyre cars and have a big rq advantage over those who are using 2x 30rq cars.
And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders.
I sort of agree that prize cars should allowed to be used, because they are basically only gathering dust but that would cause more problems. It would maybe shorten the gap between "competitive" f2p players against whales but it would also increse the gap between "competitive" and non "competitive" f2p players.
This would only further boost players that are already good enough to win prize cars "from time to time" and limit players, that are fighting for their life to win their first one.
Big fat agree from me here. Already at a huge disadvantage not to have any S to compete with because of **** luck. Prize cars can be used in small events and dailies where they whoop major ****. It's enough until there's a better solution than "let's kill players with **** luck even harder."
Comments
Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
We have waaaaay more marques in the game since the last RQ limit rise. So when we look at any RQ number, we can regularly see glaring differences with 2 cars.
Where you think, "Why is car A not less than car B in RQ?"
How “representative” it is is another question.
The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.
by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2.
Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible.
I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are.
Now, every event comes with a slew of very niche CF packs that enable someone with a deep wallet to greatly increase their chances of pulling one or more of each of these essential cars. Ridiculously specific offers (15x RWD 2000s Convertibles CF packs and so forth) are killing this game for the rest of us, and allowing people to pick up slick-tyred cars like the 917, 962C and Megane because they have real money to burn.
I agree that a broad RQ review is needed, and that as part of that slick-tyred cars might well be adjusted. I think that the bigger problem is that niche CF overkill needs to be addressed.
And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders.
Maybe it’s not the case of adding rq to balance slicks but reducing rq on other cars so that they’re more competitive rq wise. A lot of under-used rq27 legendaries that probably be a lot more useful as epics anyway.
You can discuss how much more RQ value a slick car should give vs. a perf tyre car, but removing the advantage entirely would make slicks pointless. It would make slicks the least favourable option, while it in reality IS the best choice for dry asphalt. All I'm saying is that the game should still reflect that.
I don't have a ton of great slick cars, but I think slicks should continue to be the best choice of tyres on dry asphalt nevertheless.
Having said that, I own a partially upgraded RQ29 Porsche GT2 RS and its kind of in no mans land when it comes to Porsche events, not good enough against slick cars on dry and not good enough against the 4WD porches on wet (apart from drags). Still a great car but if I had a slick tyre Porsche, that's the car I would be upgrading - I guess that in itself tells a story.
One thing I'm against however is when cars move into another RQ tier - particularly UR to Epic and Epic to Legendary - as this makes it incredibly unfair on those that missed out prior to RQ change.
Hutch fairly recently changed a lot of the off-road tired cars and drag cars to have artificially higher RQs which has led to its own problems... Now we have the Datsun, Suzuki and Fiat all on RQ18 when the Datsun is just miles better than the other two on anything except bumps. We also have the Escort and Silvia both on RQ22 when the Escort beats the Silvia on practically everything and the Porsche Rally sits 1RQ below simply because it is low! Consistency would say the Porsche Rally which beats the other two on anything except bumps should be RQ22 to match the situation with the RQ18 cars.
If we look at cars like the El Camino which also has an artificial RQ, it hasn't made a shred of difference. It's no longer the go-to Rare drag car, it is now the go-to low RQ Super Rare drag car. And in Rare, it has been replaced by the prize car Pontiac that everyone has at least one of. There has effectively been no change.
The RQ30 Audis (before they were nerfed) all held significant advantages over other cars due to being easier to collect and easier and cheaper to upgrade. This meant that people prioritised upgrading them over other cars and the people who had them held a significant advantage. This is not unfair. This is the way the game works. There are good cars and there are better cars in every RQ level.
I feel there are just too many variables and consistencies that would need to be adhered to in changing slick tired cars to have artificial RQs. I think it's easier to leave cars where the system determines them to be and let people who are lucky enough to have pulled and upgraded them have the advantage of them.
I would even be supportive of the idea of resetting everything – put the El Camino back, put the off-road cars back, make all of the Epics that sit above RQ26 into either Legendaries or RQ26 Epics. Make the system easy to understand and – even more so – make it consistent.
I think there is a very good case here not for nerfing slicks, but to actually move more quickly ahead with an RQ system overhaul, changing the RQ limit not to 35 but to something higher like 40 or even 50. This way, the differences between cars at the top of the RQ range will be exposed. That way a Bugatti Chiron at RQ50 wouldn't be directly compared with an RQ46 Porsche GT2 RS. Or cars like the two Rare Escort rally cars would be one or two RQ apart, creating a reason for the lesser one's existence in the game.
I'm all for some drastic changes to reshape the game for the better but as these two posts show, I don't think slicks are the problem.
I think there are a few factors which lead to the (in particular) Legend Porsche Slick's being ''OP''
Well, slicks in general, are very very few and far between. The chance of pulling one of those from even a Porsche CF is so so low, you have to be very lucky to own one. (However, I did see a guy in the daily with 3 maxed 962c's, so there's that y'know...)
Would the game benefit or suffer from more Slicks being available? And by being available, I mean slicks you can pull in packs, not Slicks which just get slapped behind a Prize Car barrier.
I would also like to point out, that given the finale of the Moby Dick, I might finally be able to add a Slick Legend to my garage. This has been such a long campaign from myself, and many other veterans of the game. The structure I can get behind, giving out a really fantastic car to people who have completed lots of challenges, rather than making it the top 1% in a PVP Finale.
Another point is, that the vast vast majority of events-that-matter are dry asphalt. This will only play into the hands of Slick's even more.
Personally, I would welcome more SR and UR Slicks. Before the TCR and Trans-Am become unicorns.
But 917 is the problem.
I rest my case.
Yes, it is a static manual selection of tracks. I originally wondered if it had too high an emphasis on drags, as it feels like there are more drag specialists emerging in Top Drives, but I now think that's just a by-product of drag specialists being more common in real life. The fact that twisty specialists also emerge from this RQ-generating system (the Beat, the MX-5 BBR Turbo) makes me think it's okay in that balance.
We tested out removing the more extreme drags used to determine RQ (so that cars with a lower Top Speed, e.g. the DeZir, would rank higher on average), but it made barely any difference to RQs generated, so I don't think the exact distribution is too crucial to it working. I also suspect track-type biases over 3-6 months would largely average out, although I guess we could do an audit of some sort to check!
To Blue2moro's point, that's sort-of how it works, actually! We rank each car on it's performance on Dry asphalt tracks, Wet Asphalt, and Off-road. Whichever out of those 3 it ranks highest in we consider its "primary" stat, the one it comes second in is the "secondary". We then take a weighted average of the ranks, giving most weight to the primary stat, a bit of weight to the secondary, and a tiny bit to the third.
When it comes to playing the game, obviously in practice you pick the cars most suitable for the tracks available, and this system effectively rewards you for picking more specialist cars, which feels right. We certainly wouldn't want to remove the advantage of Slicks entirely, the question is only if the balance needs to be adjusted slightly. Since all cars have an exact rank (not just an RQ), it could be as little as bumping it up by (effectively) 0.5 of an RQ, so those at the top end of a given RQ band go up, and those at the bottom don't. (Also as noted, avoiding any changes between A and S). We could alternatively reduce the weight of the secondary stat and that would presumably have a similar effect.
Overall though, it's seeming from this thread that people aren't too keen on a change though?
(Also yes, as people have noted, and as I've said elsewhere, there are probably too many cars at each RQ now, so we should consider scaling the range up again, like we did in December 2017).