ABS/TCS Demo please
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Hello,
@Mrpiratepete doubts the effects of ABS/TCS on the cars' performance [1].
Wouldn't it be cool if you could create a 2nd version of
a car that originally has ABS/TCS but in this 2nd version you change
the color and turn ABS/TCS off and race them against each other on wet
twisty circuit? I'm not talking about implementing such cars into the game, just show us a demo. This could be a part of the TD Youtube Show and yes ofc you can throw CF packs at us for having such great ideas (just kidding).
Comments
If this happens in a Top Drives Show, can someone please inform me?
The car was given out as a prize without TCS originally.
And I guess someone doesn't believe me that testing was done, which showed improved performance? lol
TCS and ABS definately help quite a bit for most tracks as I recall. Would be great for Hutch to do a demo with the drag race too.
Edit:
Caterham - 88.61
X-Bow RR - 84.13 (at 333? The one above is tuned more, so the MRA is slightly better)
I guess it depends on how long until the Caterham gets full traction compared to the RR?
Found it for ya, @S3XY
https://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/comment/108242/#Comment_108242
Meanwhile, based on what I can access right now, quite a good test is the following match-up:
2008 Caterham RS Levante (TS 150, 0-60 2.9, Handling 90), has Traction control but not ABS (after a huge discussion a while back)
vs
2013 Caterham Seven 620 R (TS 155, 0-60 2.8, Handling 91), no TC or ABS
The Levante has superior MRA, so it's not a fair comparison on anything fast, but we can get a good insight into traction by considering twistier tracks. Here's some comparisons:
Twisty Road dry, stock times:
Levante: 69.47s
Seven 620 R: 69.23s (winner)
Twisty Road wet, stock times:
Levante: 83.63s (winner)
Seven 620 R: 84.13s
Car Park dry, stock times:
Levante: 45.00s
Seven 620 R: 44.97s (winner)
Car Park wet, stock times:
Levante: 51.23s (winner)
Seven 620 R: 51.27s
So in both cases, that small extra advantage in traction changes the result. When Jon runs his test we'll be able to more clearly show the difference, and also the difference of ABS.
Regarding that Levante vs. X-Bow result, that does look weird, especially as the Levante has much better MRA. The key effects in play are:
1) Those times are for a 333 Levante vs a 966 X-Bow - which means the X-Bow has 6 upgrades worth of 'engine upgrades improve traction'
2) The 'waterfront drag' is one of the shortest (at 23.7% of a mile). That means, on the wet version, the period of time in which both cars are stuck at their traction limit takes up a larger proportion of the race, and so the advantage of both a lower 0-60 time and better MRA is reduced.
To get an idea of how that adds up, here's some comparisons:
Waterfront drag
Upgrades / dry time / wet time
Levante
000 10.53 / 11.60
330 10.33 / 11.53
660 10.17 / 11.50
990 10.00 / 11.47
X-Bow RR
000 11.53 / 11.97
330 11.27 / 11.77
660 11.00 / 11.57
990 10.73 / 11.40
So at equal upgrades and in both conditions, the Levante wins as expected. The question is then how can the X-Bow's upgrades make enough difference to take the win in the above case.
One odd thing you can see above is that when conditions turn wet, the Levante gets around 10%-15% slower vs the dry, where the X-Bow is only 4%-6% slower. I believe that's because of point (2) above - by having a lower 0-60, the Levante has "more to lose" when it has to go slow to stick to the traction limit (as the two cars will accelerate very similarly while they are at that limit).
So, this is a bit like the way a rolling start removes the advantage of a lower 0-60 car; when both cars are at the traction limit they accelerate at the same speed (or very slightly faster if one has TC). I think this also explains why it only takes a relatively small advantage in traction (from the engine upgrades) to make a difference. Poor track conditions remove the advantage the faster-on-dry car has (by constraining it to the traction limit), and also as the upgraded car has slightly better traction it can pull away from the very start (as it has a higher traction limit) and escape the traction limit to floor it sooner.
In terms of being practical, I'm currently favouring reducing the amount by which engine upgrades improve traction, rather than remove the effect entirely, as that will be less disruptive to the meta and enable us to judge how many weird results we can clear up that way - possibly most of them. However, the next update will focus on fixing the 'Demon bug' (extremely low 0-60 cars don't have enough traction to hit their correct figures) and the x-y mph bug (where the wrong car wins if both DNF).
0-60-0 gravel
0-150 gravel
Can we expect fix to that aswell in upcoming update or that will be delayed?
Thanks for your insights, I'm really looking forward to the January Episode of the TD Show.
Meanwhile, let me add some evidence:
Race Info was TCS and indeed the Patrol has it while the Ranger doesnt.