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Jesko Absolut Finals (Event)

O__VERO__VER Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 6 in General Discussion
Sorry but I'm not gonna shut up about these finals. I know we can't see the requirements yet, but if it is pre-2000s 4-seaters as it appears to be, then it's just plain dumb:
  • Probably the main one is that one of only three viable Legendaries – the 1995 911 Turbo used to be Epic. Some people will have multiples of this car maxed which gives them a massive advantage.
  • One of only four viable Epics – the RQ72 RUF was nerfed to a point of being a bit ****, and worse in a straight line than its UR predecessor.
  • One of only four viable Epics – the RQ70 RUF has inaccurate, high MRA because it wasn't nerfed alongside the other RUFs.
  • One of only four viable Epics – the R34 GTR was strangely moved to medium height despite the UR R32 and R33 versions remaining low. This has inflated its RQ perhaps unnecessarily. 
And that's not even mentioning the counter-intuitive performance gap between the rarity tiers:

If Hutch makes this final wet, then the Legendaries will destroy the Epics. But then, if it's particularly twisty wet-tracks, then the R34 might beat 333 legendaries. This then might make it pretty disappointing to use up your luck pulling a Legendary for this final.

If Hutch makes it dry, then it's actually far more worthwhile pulling an Epic because they're easier to max and will beat the 4WD Legendaries if they're anything but maxed. Again it's going to be super gutting to pull a Legendary. Hardly how it should be!
Post edited by O__VER on
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Comments

  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the message is: shut up and buy the packs, nothing to see here. 
    Maybe the new flexible requirements will save the day
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another point to add: how about the rq65 911 turbo that is worse than the rq64 btr?
    Higher 0-60, heavier, lower top speed and about the same mra. The only plus is 2 more handling points, which means it could only win on some twisty tracks IF MAXED.

    I think the idea of these requirements is probably interesting, the problem lies with all the issues that have not been dealt with (promoted epics, wrong ride height, uneven and random car corrections / nerfs across brands, etc etc). So yes for this final it creates quite a horrible set up.

    Also it is rumoured the yellowbird will be allowed. By definition that is penalising for the people who have not completed the challenge yet. I guess it could be ok but the issue here is that this car will dominate anything else in the dry (short perhaps of a maxed ctr2), and especially on drags. The only other instance I remember is the peter blake bentley being allowed. In that case though it was not a dominating car though, there were quite a few cars that could beat it.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Players will never fully utilise all of the (enter here) superfluous number of cars Hutch insists on adding unless we can max all of them without such ridiculous barriers such as rarity tiers.

    Use a car's RQ score as the metric for the requirement to upgrade it. 
  • TopDrives40778TopDrives40778 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:

    Also it is rumoured the yellowbird will be allowed. 
    Rumors of the Ruf Yellowbird being allowed in the Finals, PL update with new cars next week, and the Loch Ness Monster - all of these have something in common  :D
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:

    Also it is rumoured the yellowbird will be allowed. 
    Rumors of the Ruf Yellowbird being allowed in the Finals, PL update with new cars next week, and the Loch Ness Monster - all of these have something in common  :D
    Seems you are right indeed, new rumour contradicts old rumour.
    That’s one mystery solved. We’re still left with the PL next week and the Loch Ness monster.
  • SquadalaxdSquadalaxd Posts: 7
    Whatever
  • bluedogsnoopbluedogsnoop Posts: 994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All dry, drags and speed shocka! 
    Below from Moustraps post on IGF



  • bertmcfishbertmcfish Posts: 279 ✭✭✭
    Dull requirements full of cars that are a total mess - lower RQ cars with worse stats beating randomly nerfed ’better’ cars, as mentioned above.

    Seriously disappointing, but irrelevant anyway as this will follow my usual tri-series final pattern of being on the edge of the top 10 for 3 days only to finish about 30th. Booorrriiing...
  • D3nzelloD3nzello Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
    so whats the winning for tier 1? basically 3 semi-maxed CTR2s? and 2 jags trans-am?
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭
    D3nzello said:
    so whats the winning for tier 1? basically 3 semi-maxed CTR2s? and 2 jags trans-am?
    2 jag is basically losing 1 race for sure 
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AslanV said:
    D3nzello said:
    so whats the winning for tier 1? basically 3 semi-maxed CTR2s? and 2 jags trans-am?
    2 jag is basically losing 1 race for sure 
    I’d say 2 jags is losing 2 races for sure, but if you win with 3 ctr2s then that works i guess
  • adms87adms87 Posts: 445 ✭✭✭
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
    Forbidden. Just report it
  • aelburtaelburt Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
    Post it in that famous topic here 
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Ok adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
    Forbidden. Just report it
    Not sure that’s true. Pushing weak hands to the top so they’re out of reach is forbidden, but avoiding your friends is part of the game, like it or not. 
  • D3nzelloD3nzello Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
    adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.

    lol, glad I didnt spend money on packs, this **** happens when you have finals with weak cars, people team up and avoid fusing 20+ epics.
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    TD42792 said:
    Ok adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
    Forbidden. Just report it
    Not sure that’s true. Pushing weak hands to the top so they’re out of reach is forbidden, but avoiding your friends is part of the game, like it or not. 
    I guess it’s a grey area but looking at the official text a large group of players blocking access to T1/T2 seems to be prohibited. The way I read it is that avoiding one or two friends is ok but collaborating with 5+ players is against the spirit, considered colluding, and therefore not allowed. The question is where do you draw the line to define a ‘large group’ of players. I think 5+ is probably right, but that’s just my opinion.

    “We believe colluding with other players in multiplayer events is against the competitive spirit of the game; as such, we don't allow any large-scale form of collaboration. The main example of this is when players with a weak hand are elevated to the top of the leaderboard, so all other players cannot race them. When it involves groups of up to ten players, this blocks out an entire prize tier, which we deem unacceptable.

    We have already banned any talk of collusion from our forum and official social media channels. While we believe there is a thin line between collusion and playing strategically, if we have firm reasons to believe that a player has been involved in this sort of high-scale collusion together with other players we may apply penalties to their accounts, ranging from removing the prizes they won to banning their account. 

    We trust all players will enjoy playing Top Drives in a fair manner, and may the best hand win.”
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @TD42792 the ambiguity allows them to apply the rules however they like. But yeah I guess this example could be described as too much 
  • adms87adms87 Posts: 445 ✭✭✭
    I'm actually not mad about it. They all have strong hands. If it is forbidden or not I really dont care in this case. If the peloton gets bigger with players with weak hands then it might be a different situation.
  • bertmcfishbertmcfish Posts: 279 ✭✭✭
    Dull requirements full of cars that are a total mess - lower RQ cars with worse stats beating randomly nerfed ’better’ cars, as mentioned above.

    Seriously disappointing, but irrelevant anyway as this will follow my usual tri-series final pattern of being on the edge of the top 10 for 3 days only to finish about 30th. Booorrriiing...
    Seeing as I had a moan, it’s only fair to give praise where it is due. The addition of a challenge to these final weekends is brilliant. Failing to complete them may cause some frustration, but it rewards those who build up their garage and gives a chance to win a car that could make a real difference. I reserve the right to retract this when I finish outside the top 2 tiers on Sunday :)
  • KaratXKaratX Posts: 1
    TD42792 said:
    adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
    Forbidden. Just report it
    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
  • bluedogsnoopbluedogsnoop Posts: 994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaratX said:
    TD42792 said:
    adms87 said:
    This is funny. Looks like a cycling peloton.
    Forbidden. Just report it
    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    I gave a longer answer above, please read that one as well, and dog’s excellent post too.

    What is wrong imo is agreeing with other players when to join and not hitting each other, only the ones below. If it’s 2 or 3 players then that’s probably fine and how the game is intended to be played. When it’s 6, 7, up to 10, it creates a collusion that is impossible to counter for any other player, who will be relegated to T3 or coerced into spending way more gold than normal to maintain a bottom T2 position.

    Beyond the fact that I find this tactic extremely cowardly, it just creates situations where other players who might have a chance will just give up, thereby validating the effectiveness of the collusion. If there was no wide-group collaborations, other players would actually have more balanced win/lose scores. 

    Now I will grant you that unfortunately this type of tactic is a direct consequence of the way the game is designed, in the sense that it is technically possible to implement - and that, in my book, is a fault of the developers, not the players. Nevertheless, it is everything but fair play, using organised group strength as opposed to individual skill, which is why I personally loath it.

    Two things that make it extremely obvious to identify such practice are: 1/ weaker hands at the top or staying level with other stronger hands in terms of overall points, even though that weaker hand has more losses, and 2/ very minimal losses for the players in the gang, and then suddenly the next player (not in the gang) has as many losses as wins.

    I am in a way happy that Hutch came out publicly to condone such practices as it was becoming a real cancer for the game, I hope they actually stick to their word and also take punitive measures, but I also feel bad for the people who enjoyed playing the game that way, because it’s actually technically possible to do it and then you need to ask people to self regulate, which will necessarily lead to drama one way or the other.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Avoiding other players isn't forbidden.  Hutch cannot tell you who you choose to fight and when.  This is not collusion.  If it was, nearly every ceramic event would be subject to collusion, as the top 2 players generally tend to naturally avoid each other in most events.

    What is forbidden is actual collusion, which is pushing weak players to the top and using stronger hands to protect them.  However, even if this is "observed", you still have to prove it.  Good luck doing this without any written proof from the parties involved.  A simple screenshot isn't going to prove your case.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Been there so many times. A few weaker hands I can beat in the gang. Give them all the losses I can, but then all their friends hit me with all their tickets. Your claim that no one is protected is erroneous. Weaker hands are protected, whether by active protection by placing them at the top or just by the sheer factor or being outnumbered.

    As to proving actual shielding, it is quite easy : screen shot of the actual weak hand + screen shot of your superior hand + screen shots of other gang hands and scores. Anyone who knows the game will know instantly what's going on.

    So according to you this game is meant to be played as groups of 10 finding each other on the book of face and joining together to assert group domination? Sorry but I personally find this quite sad on quite a few levels.
  • bluedogsnoopbluedogsnoop Posts: 994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    They are actively choosing not to race each other. They are all waiting until they get to the bottom of the heap until they race. If that is not the very definition of agreed collusion to the detriment of others, then I do not know what is. 
  • adms87adms87 Posts: 445 ✭✭✭
    One thing is for sure, that's got be coordinated. Right now no one is even fighting for T1. The peloton got bigger now. Theres 7 people not fighting each other. The 2 in the bottom are always the same...
  • bluedogsnoopbluedogsnoop Posts: 994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8
    adms87 said:
    One thing is for sure, that's got be coordinated. Right now no one is even fighting for T1. The peloton got bigger now. Theres 7 people not fighting each other. The 2 in the bottom are always the same...
    Imagine that. I am sure that is just a coincidence. /s
    🙄
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