Skip to content

Jesko Absolut Finals (Event)

2»

Comments

  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    They are actively choosing not to race each other. They are all waiting until they get to the bottom of the heap until they race. If that is not the very definition of agreed collusion to the detriment of others, then I do not know what is. 
    So then you agree that there is no weak hand being protected?
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Been there so many times. A few weaker hands I can beat in the gang. Give them all the losses I can, but then all their friends hit me with all their tickets. Your claim that no one is protected is erroneous. Weaker hands are protected, whether by active protection by placing them at the top or just by the sheer factor or being outnumbered.

    As to proving actual shielding, it is quite easy : screen shot of the actual weak hand + screen shot of your superior hand + screen shots of other gang hands and scores. Anyone who knows the game will know instantly what's going on.

    So according to you this game is meant to be played as groups of 10 finding each other on the book of face and joining together to assert group domination? Sorry but I personally find this quite sad on quite a few levels.
    I'm not talking about what you have seen in the past.  I'm discussing the bracket shown above, but since you want to discuss in broad terms.  If the top 3 avoid each other and hit 4th and down, isn't that collusion as well?  But wait, they are just fighting for T1, so then I guess that isn't collusion?  How many players is considered collusion?  
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Been there so many times. A few weaker hands I can beat in the gang. Give them all the losses I can, but then all their friends hit me with all their tickets. Your claim that no one is protected is erroneous. Weaker hands are protected, whether by active protection by placing them at the top or just by the sheer factor or being outnumbered.

    As to proving actual shielding, it is quite easy : screen shot of the actual weak hand + screen shot of your superior hand + screen shots of other gang hands and scores. Anyone who knows the game will know instantly what's going on.

    So according to you this game is meant to be played as groups of 10 finding each other on the book of face and joining together to assert group domination? Sorry but I personally find this quite sad on quite a few levels.
    I'm not talking about what you have seen in the past.  I'm discussing the bracket shown above, but since you want to discuss in broad terms.  If the top 3 avoid each other and hit 4th and down, isn't that collusion as well?  But wait, they are just fighting for T1, so then I guess that isn't collusion?  How many players is considered collusion?  
    I have been talking about the overall principles indeed. Debating ideas and experiences so that progress can be made one way or the other, to hopefully make points for Hutch to consider and continue improve the game. I have very little interest in this specific case.

    “How many players is considered collusion.” That is exactly the point I raised in my first post if you had bothered reading. This is imo the crux of the question. I said personally I think 5 and over screws the game, but I am sure other people will have different views. 2 people is enough for it to be technically a collusion but I think here what Hutch wants to prevent is a collusion that is harmful to the game. I think we will all agree that in a tri-series with 10 top prizes 2 is not harmful. In a ceramic event 2 is sort of harmful but nobody cares and it is impossible/impractical to try and monitor it anyway.

    So there you go, 2 is not a problem, 10 is definitely a problem (harmful to the game because it will drive away players not wanting or able to actively team up, and it decreases the amount of competition which means less money for Hutch too - it’s also probably not with the original competitive spirit of the game). It’s somewhere in between.

    With regards to this specific case, since that is what you are interested in. IF you tell me that these players did not contact each other prior to joining, AND IF you tell me that they are not in communication since they joined to coordinate placement/rotation:targeting, AND IF you tell me they all have undeniably superior hands to the players with more losses below them (by that I mean the other players below can perhaps only attack any of them on 1 out of 4 track sets)... then ok, I will genuinely accept that there is no intended bullying, that it just happens that all these guys are smart strategic players playing in their best interest. Somehow I highly doubt it.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Been there so many times. A few weaker hands I can beat in the gang. Give them all the losses I can, but then all their friends hit me with all their tickets. Your claim that no one is protected is erroneous. Weaker hands are protected, whether by active protection by placing them at the top or just by the sheer factor or being outnumbered.

    As to proving actual shielding, it is quite easy : screen shot of the actual weak hand + screen shot of your superior hand + screen shots of other gang hands and scores. Anyone who knows the game will know instantly what's going on.

    So according to you this game is meant to be played as groups of 10 finding each other on the book of face and joining together to assert group domination? Sorry but I personally find this quite sad on quite a few levels.
    I'm not talking about what you have seen in the past.  I'm discussing the bracket shown above, but since you want to discuss in broad terms.  If the top 3 avoid each other and hit 4th and down, isn't that collusion as well?  But wait, they are just fighting for T1, so then I guess that isn't collusion?  How many players is considered collusion?  
    With regards to this specific case, since that is what you are interested in. IF you tell me that these players did not contact each other prior to joining, AND IF you tell me that they are not in communication since they joined to coordinate placement/rotation:targeting, AND IF you tell me they all have undeniably superior hands to the players with more losses below them (by that I mean the other players below can perhaps only attack any of them on 1 out of 4 track sets)... then ok, I will genuinely accept that there is no intended bullying, that it just happens that all these guys are smart strategic players playing in their best interest. Somehow I highly doubt it.
    It doesn't matter if they contacted each other or not, I don't have to prove it to you, and you knew before you asked that was impossible to prove.  If they can beat the people below them continuously and rotationally, then where is the problem?  Do you know how many times I've heard people complain because players in the top 10 of a finals event are attacking up instead of down, in order to build a gap?  That's what these players are doing, except smarter; building a gap.  Based on that screenshot, and the comments earlier, they aren't protecting a weaker player, which was what Hutch said they were cracking down on.  Dmitri even put it in his post (which you linked) in bold.  "We want to make it clear that teaming up in a way to boost players who can't win races on merit is a form of collusion that we do not tolerate. "
  • PashaPasha Posts: 339 ✭✭✭
    Does someone have an information how Asian brackets look like? Doing my last fuses want to jump in. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Been there so many times. A few weaker hands I can beat in the gang. Give them all the losses I can, but then all their friends hit me with all their tickets. Your claim that no one is protected is erroneous. Weaker hands are protected, whether by active protection by placing them at the top or just by the sheer factor or being outnumbered.

    As to proving actual shielding, it is quite easy : screen shot of the actual weak hand + screen shot of your superior hand + screen shots of other gang hands and scores. Anyone who knows the game will know instantly what's going on.

    So according to you this game is meant to be played as groups of 10 finding each other on the book of face and joining together to assert group domination? Sorry but I personally find this quite sad on quite a few levels.
    I'm not talking about what you have seen in the past.  I'm discussing the bracket shown above, but since you want to discuss in broad terms.  If the top 3 avoid each other and hit 4th and down, isn't that collusion as well?  But wait, they are just fighting for T1, so then I guess that isn't collusion?  How many players is considered collusion?  
    With regards to this specific case, since that is what you are interested in. IF you tell me that these players did not contact each other prior to joining, AND IF you tell me that they are not in communication since they joined to coordinate placement/rotation:targeting, AND IF you tell me they all have undeniably superior hands to the players with more losses below them (by that I mean the other players below can perhaps only attack any of them on 1 out of 4 track sets)... then ok, I will genuinely accept that there is no intended bullying, that it just happens that all these guys are smart strategic players playing in their best interest. Somehow I highly doubt it.
    It doesn't matter if they contacted each other or not, I don't have to prove it to you, and you knew before you asked that was impossible to prove.  If they can beat the people below them continuously and rotationally, then where is the problem?  Do you know how many times I've heard people complain because players in the top 10 of a finals event are attacking up instead of down, in order to build a gap?  That's what these players are doing, except smarter; building a gap.  Based on that screenshot, and the comments earlier, they aren't protecting a weaker player, which was what Hutch said they were cracking down on.  Dmitri even put it in his post (which you linked) in bold.  "We want to make it clear that teaming up in a way to boost players who can't win races on merit is a form of collusion that we do not tolerate. "
    1/ Your last point. Indeed Hutch SPECIFICALLY said the practice of protecting weaker players is explicitly prohibited. Because it is easier to identify and simply unfair to other players with better hands. You seem to recognize the nefarious impact of such practice so I wont bother going into more details. However, you seem to draw from it that it is the only thing prohibited. This is absolutely not the way I understand Hutch’s position on the matter. My understanding is that this shielding practice is only an example of a wider principle of collusion that they want to prevent. See in one of my earlier posts the complete quote from the game Q&A. The relevant part is: “ We believe colluding with other players in multiplayer events is against the competitive spirit of the game; as such, we don't allow any large-scale form of collaboration. The main example of this is when players with a weak hand...”. Also, Dmitri in his post (which bluedog linked, not me btw, but whatever), stated: “The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating...”. I understand from these definitions and examples of harmful collusion that it includes large groups of players collaborating to prevent access to T1/T2 to other players, by using group force vs individual merit. Whether they are actively protecting a specific weaker player or not.

    In this specific case it seems there is a wall (the poster playing in this bracket seems to have identified it), so it would not even be a matter of interpretation or debate. What is going on in that bracket seems to directly contravene Dmitri’s specific rule. But obviously to be certain we would need to see more screenshots of hands, scores, further down the score board, etc. Also it’s not for me to opine on.

    I will ask you you the same question again, which you did not answer: is this game meant to be about finding a group of 10 and bullying others out of prizes? If that’s how you like to play it then good for you. Personally I have 0 interest in such a game, and I would bet the vast majority of TD players do not either.

    2/ You think teaming up and using group strength is smarter. I think it is the easy way, somewhat exploitative of the game design, shows no sportsmanship, eliminates competition and therefore fun, and is downright cowardly. I actually did it once a while back, participating in one of those collusions. I hated every minute of it: I felt bad for the other players, I got no satisfaction from earning the prize from what seemed liked cheating, and I was dictated where to be / what to do / who to attack or protect during the whole event (and threatened of retaliation if I didnt comply). I was basically given a prize, I did not get to win it. It was boring. For those trekkies out there, it is basically akin to wanting to be assimilated by the borg instead of remaining an individual lol.

    3/ You say it doesnt matter if they contacted each other or not. Of course it does. The collusion would not exist if they had not communicated to coordinate on how to play the bracket and lock T1/T2. This is what a ‘healthy’ bracket looks like imo:

    Sure there is a bit of a gap between T1 and T2 but people below are definitely attacking and everyone still has a chance to shake things up if they improve their hand or get better cars today. This is what every ‘natural’ bracket looks like when there is no collusion.

    4/ People have complained that other players at the top are hitting upwards instead of creating a gap. So what? When you play a ceramic and it is about top 2, it is just stupid to hit 2nd when you are first. It is just about ego, and I will agree with you here, not smart tactically. I dont think anyone cares about collusion for a ceramic though. If people complain about not building a wall in a tri-series between 10th and 11th then it is different, and refers back to this whole conversation. I will argue it is only natural there is no wall / gap from 10 to 11, they will argue they like to play group force because it is ‘smarter’.

    Anyway, I think I have said everything I could on the topic, probably way too much time spent on this argumentation for a mobile game, so I will shut up now.

    Good luck in the event!
  • TopDrives34865TopDrives34865 Posts: 136 ✭✭✭
    I did not want to post on the topic before since I am convinced those 5 players are watching what is happening on the forum, but now that it's almost over, here you go.




    You can clearly see what even @HeissRod has been describing as a collusion. 5 players, 2 with weaker hands (I know it, I beat the 2nd player on early friday twice) at the top because the 3 below lose against them on purpose, thus locking 5 places in the top 10 while only 3 should be (they have definitely hands that can't be beaten, and that' the game, I'm not complaining).

    Another obvious proof ? You were talking about creating a gap. Now that it is done, they should fight for the double CF in t1 right ? Except being blind, you cannot say it is the case.

    Not enough ? Out of 5, 4 are all following each other on IG. Perfect example of what anybody here would or should consider a collusion, and nowhere near the "sane" bracket TD42792 shown.

    I 100% agree with TD42792, on all of his points. I do not have any interest in such a game. This is ruining the brilliant concept of the game, and they don't need to be 10 to do so.

    Please do not misunderstand what I am trying to say. My hand is imo way to weak to get t1/2 in the end, even if those 5 were not playing, and I'm not complaining just because I will miss the prize car.

    I would have so much more to say if English was my first language, but anyway, I am really curious to see what you think about my bracket... If any admin could have a look, I'd appreciate it, but I understand this is not a priority.
  • bluedogsnoopbluedogsnoop Posts: 994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    HeissRod said:
    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    They are actively choosing not to race each other. They are all waiting until they get to the bottom of the heap until they race. If that is not the very definition of agreed collusion to the detriment of others, then I do not know what is. 
    So then you agree that there is no weak hand being protected?
    I cannot say that without seeing the hands. Potentially there are hands that are weaker and that is why they are planning the rotations, which they clearly are. 

    How you wish to micro-analyse the vague rules that Hutch have in place for this is your choice. I am just simply stating what is so very obvious to all those who see that bracket. 

    Feel free to share the view from the inside @Daniela rather than just agreeing/disagreeing with posts. Or even better please share your hand. I am sure a few people are interested.
  • Bst1066Bst1066 Posts: 5
    I did not want to post on the topic before since I am convinced those 5 players are watching what is happening on the forum, but now that it's almost over, here you go.




    You can clearly see what even @HeissRod has been describing as a collusion. 5 players, 2 with weaker hands (I know it, I beat the 2nd player on early friday twice) at the top because the 3 below lose against them on purpose, thus locking 5 places in the top 10 while only 3 should be (they have definitely hands that can't be beaten, and that' the game, I'm not complaining).

    Another obvious proof ? You were talking about creating a gap. Now that it is done, they should fight for the double CF in t1 right ? Except being blind, you cannot say it is the case.

    Not enough ? Out of 5, 4 are all following each other on IG. Perfect example of what anybody here would or should consider a collusion, and nowhere near the "sane" bracket TD42792 shown.

    I 100% agree with TD42792, on all of his points. I do not have any interest in such a game. This is ruining the brilliant concept of the game, and they don't need to be 10 to do so.

    Please do not misunderstand what I am trying to say. My hand is imo way to weak to get t1/2 in the end, even if those 5 were not playing, and I'm not complaining just because I will miss the prize car.

    I would have so much more to say if English was my first language, but anyway, I am really curious to see what you think about my bracket... If any admin could have a look, I'd appreciate it, but I understand this is not a priority.
    That very much looks like my bracket be interesting to see if it is. From what I see you would be quintin??

    You say the bottom 3 lose to top 2 on purpose yet the losses don’t support such a claim from this pic
  • D3nzelloD3nzello Posts: 236 ✭✭✭
    Hutch, you have very intelligent people here on the forums who give incredible valuable input and contribution, why not invest 2 weeks of coding, fix those issues and make everybody happy? listen to the people, guys!
    otherwise these discussions will go on forever (most likely even the next finals thread). we all just wanna have fun IN A FAIR COMPETITION, its not that hard to understand.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    TD42792 said:
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Been there so many times. A few weaker hands I can beat in the gang. Give them all the losses I can, but then all their friends hit me with all their tickets. Your claim that no one is protected is erroneous. Weaker hands are protected, whether by active protection by placing them at the top or just by the sheer factor or being outnumbered.

    As to proving actual shielding, it is quite easy : screen shot of the actual weak hand + screen shot of your superior hand + screen shots of other gang hands and scores. Anyone who knows the game will know instantly what's going on.

    So according to you this game is meant to be played as groups of 10 finding each other on the book of face and joining together to assert group domination? Sorry but I personally find this quite sad on quite a few levels.
    I'm not talking about what you have seen in the past.  I'm discussing the bracket shown above, but since you want to discuss in broad terms.  If the top 3 avoid each other and hit 4th and down, isn't that collusion as well?  But wait, they are just fighting for T1, so then I guess that isn't collusion?  How many players is considered collusion?  
    With regards to this specific case, since that is what you are interested in. IF you tell me that these players did not contact each other prior to joining, AND IF you tell me that they are not in communication since they joined to coordinate placement/rotation:targeting, AND IF you tell me they all have undeniably superior hands to the players with more losses below them (by that I mean the other players below can perhaps only attack any of them on 1 out of 4 track sets)... then ok, I will genuinely accept that there is no intended bullying, that it just happens that all these guys are smart strategic players playing in their best interest. Somehow I highly doubt it.
    It doesn't matter if they contacted each other or not, I don't have to prove it to you, and you knew before you asked that was impossible to prove.  If they can beat the people below them continuously and rotationally, then where is the problem?  Do you know how many times I've heard people complain because players in the top 10 of a finals event are attacking up instead of down, in order to build a gap?  That's what these players are doing, except smarter; building a gap.  Based on that screenshot, and the comments earlier, they aren't protecting a weaker player, which was what Hutch said they were cracking down on.  Dmitri even put it in his post (which you linked) in bold.  "We want to make it clear that teaming up in a way to boost players who can't win races on merit is a form of collusion that we do not tolerate. "
    Anyway, I think I have said everything I could on the topic, probably way too much time spent on this argumentation for a mobile game, so I will shut up now.

    Good luck in the event!
    This is the smartest quote so far in this thread and I 100% agree.
  • td2020td2020 Posts: 15
    A really satisfying rank after being T2 for pretty much the entire event, and spending a lot on Packs and Fuses. And the CF delivers as well! 
  • O__VERO__VER Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9
    BoxtaS said:
    The collusion issue has distracted us from how bad this event requirement / tracks combo was:
    CTR2 - untouchable
    959 - basically useless
    911 Turbo - used to be epic, useless at 333
    BTR2 - bugged MRA
    RCT - bugged MRA
    GTR - useless here
    911 - useless everywhere 
    *no other legends or epics available* 

    For a really serious prize car 🙈

    This all day. What an absolute embarrassment for Hutch.

    And of course they ignore it. Not a single comment from Hutch. They got their money after-all, and "f*** the players" appears to be their modus operandi.
  • rkorallerkoralle Posts: 815 ✭✭✭
    edited May 9
    I got it on my own, without help or team building with a So-so hand.
    Bought one CF and  pulled the CTR2 - Lucky me!
    I entered this morning, 280 people inside. After 5 races i was in T1. After 10 races this afternoon i was still t2 and thought i might have a chance so i bought another 2 or 3 cf with safed gold and pulled that rq72 ruf, did a fuse. Later 2 other instant fuses paying 600g.
    Bought 5 tickets 5 minutes before the end and ended in 9th position.

    This game is about luck, i dont spend money and this is the first price car besides the challenges for a long long time. I dont even remember which was the last one 
    Not enough, i pulled a mclaren spyder from a cash ceramic and the 924 in the yellow bird challenge ^^

    Congrats to all other people who got this car.

    This was my hand : 

  • TopDrives34865TopDrives34865 Posts: 136 ✭✭✭

    rkoralle said:

    This game is about luck
    This...
  • MalaniMalani Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    rkoralle said:

    This game is about luck
    This...
    Luck and / or ££££££££
  • rkorallerkoralle Posts: 815 ✭✭✭
    That thing is insane!

  • willcf15willcf15 Posts: 446 ✭✭✭✭
    rkoralle said:
    That thing is insane!

    Ugh. I really dislike what top-tier prize cars do to the game. Either Hutch selects criteria to make sure they aren't allowed in most events, which makes the owners frustrated, or they allow them, which makes everyone else frustrated. This is only really avoidable by choosing different prize cars when new cars are introduced to the game, so there isn't much to be done at this point, but I just want to express my discontent with this mechanic.

    In any case, congrats on the win! My poor drag roster is going to have a miserable future ahead of it haha
  • rkorallerkoralle Posts: 815 ✭✭✭
    edited May 10
    My best drag car was the mclaren 720 so far, now this is a bump!
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13
    HeissRod said:
    KaratX said:

    Ok a Short interesting answer.

    What is forbidden? There is no weak player in the top, all player have strong hands a few looses. Ok what’s wrong?

    please tell me what would you report? Hei hutch there’s are some players with strong hands, do something I can’t win. I have the weakest hand of all in the the top, but I can beat all players below me.

    so tell me how I have to play, that you and others are happy?

    i can choose to attack players below me and get a win, or I can try to attack players about me and get a draw or a loose. Tell me what must I do that people like you and others are happy with my strategy.

    and I tell you something else. Yesterday I was fine, cause I didn’t think I can get the price car. I play and see hey there are not so many strong hands. I’m not F2P so I have some food and Load my Gold up, I bought 15 CF packs with 2 epic and a leggy. I upgrade my cars and play.

    and now tell me what is wrong with my art of playing this game ?
    Welcome to the forum.
    With reference to Dimitri's post here and this quote below.
    The bottom line is, creating a wall to block the top tier, or obviously boosting someone who can't achieve the reward on their own merit, is what we would consider a form of collusion worth investigating. Even then, we will make sure we have all the necessary evidence before taking action.
    By not racing each other at all and all just taking out the people below you, then you are very much creating a wall to block the top tier. None of you are suffering loss points, and those with weaker hands in the group are still being shielded by those around them as a result. 

    If you all played competitively then 1-2 of you would be closer to the bottom of that group and would be 'possibly' likely to be more vulnerable to those below. Players fuse their cars through the weekend and some are not often fully race ready until Sunday, but you are all giving yourselves an artificial advantage against the other players.

    If there were 10 of you colluding (I have no idea how many are) and some of you had more problems beating numbers 11 and 12, so only raced those in 13th, then 11/12 are never going to get close to you, because of the artificial situation.

    Anyway thanks for owning up to the obvious cartel you have going on. You have as good as admitted it. A lot of players now know who to look out for in the future, as those 6 names above will have a target on their back both in races and in being watched.

    I don't see any shielding in that bracket, given the close scores and minimal losses.  What I do see are strong hands rotating and playing against players outside of the screenshot.  This means that the hands at the top will rotate to the bottom and no one is being protected.
    Agreed. Shielding that got the ban last time was when players deliberately lost to weak hands to keep those out of reach from below. That should be banned.

    Avoiding other hands who are similar in strength, and focusing on the weaker hands below, Even in rotation should be allowed. I don't want to hit players who can hit me back whether they are friendly or not.

    Heck, I do it with players i have no contact with. It's common sense, because otherwise you could just end up in a grudge match with an equally strong hand and a weaker hand overtakes because they're racing below.

    Collusion has to be a high threshold to of prove, and this doesn't qualify.
    Post edited by RobGripes on
Sign In or Register to comment.